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you're listening to fade to black with

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your host jimmy church on the dark

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matter radio network

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don't run and hide

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don't be afraid

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don't turn away any longer

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the truth will set you free

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and now your host the captain of

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conspiracy the prince of paranormal

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this ain't your daddy's radio network

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show

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oh yeah

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welcome back everybody

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this is fade to black

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i'm your host jimmy church

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today is thursday january 30th 2014 30

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days

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we are live from the jp motorsports

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studios right here in burbank california

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and i am fighting a brutal cold

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for kjcr in the dark matter radio

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network

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i'd like to welcome everybody around the

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world listening to the show

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welcome back

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last night dr stephen greer

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tonight phillip mantle

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i'm just honored

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you know how i start off every show

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started off with a salute

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to the proud men and women in uniform

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fighting the good fight

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all around the world

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without them there is no me there is no

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you there is no us and you can't hear me

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happy birthday to phil collins of

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genesis

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phil is 63 years old today

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gene hackman is 84. how does that make

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you feel oh man

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and our dead guy birthday today is

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franklin delano roosevelt

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born in 1882

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too much math for me i have no idea how

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old he would be today

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follow us on twitter facebook and

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youtube

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you know what to do everything is fade

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to black j church radio jimmy church

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kjcr fade to black

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go follow like and subscribe if you're

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at artbell.com right now if you're at

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dark matter

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if you're on the radio page

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and you're looking at fade to black all

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the links are right there just go

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go and follow us

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let's kick up those twitter numbers

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tonight that is the goal

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i think we might have time for open

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lines tonight we will be speaking with

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philip mantle

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live from the united kingdom

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and i've been working on this for a

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couple of weeks and we finally got

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everything set up

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and i i believe right now it's like

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three or four o'clock in the morning in

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the uk

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and i'm sure he's listening to me right

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oh

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man but uh yeah live

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from the uk it's gonna be great and as

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everybody knows philip is the editor of

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ufo today

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and a very prolific

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writer and

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very knowledgeable guy we're going to be

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covering a bunch of different subjects

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tonight and as always you know it's just

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a conversation

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and we'll see where that conversation

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leads but i'm really

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interested in uh picking his brain on

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ray santilli

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and last week when mark center called in

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and

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i've already been in touch with philip

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about coming in it was just a weird

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coincidence and stuff like that does

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happen

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and so now tonight

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is philip mantle and and i'm really

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excited about uh talking to philip and i

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want to thank him for coming in all

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right you can always email me throughout

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the show

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the email is jimmy jimmychurchradio.com

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you can email us in confidence you can

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do whatever you want to do you can email

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me direct you can go to our contacts

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page and email us there where we use

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non nsa specially encrypted servers feel

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safe

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i had an email a couple of weeks ago

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somebody

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heard me say that

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and goes dude

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these aren't encrypted

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the call-in number as always is

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323-825-5045 if i have time tonight

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after philip

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we will be taking your calls again three

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two three eight two five fifty forty

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five last night with stephen greer by

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the way

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the calls were coming in and i apologize

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for the audio

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uh with stephen the rules are with this

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show is

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no cell phones

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we couldn't get him on a landline that

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was his choice

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but he insisted you know and with

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with the cia and everything else that's

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involved in his life i'm sure that he

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didn't he didn't want anybody no to know

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his location that's the only thing i can

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think of

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but i apologize for that but it's live

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audio and and when you're doing a live

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broadcast like that and it is what it is

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the show must go on

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and we ran with it at times the audio

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was pretty good and

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and throughout the show i was getting

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this email man it's garbled it's garbled

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what can you do there's nothing i could

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have done on my end

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all i did was ran the uh ran the faders

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full blast and let it let the chips fall

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where they may but in the end it was an

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amazing interview and it was an amazing

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conversation and

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uh it went all over the place but i do

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apologize for that audio okay now

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tonight uh we will be bringing in philip

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mantle will be on skype so that's gonna

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be a different story and it's all gonna

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be good as always

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the uh bumper music tonight is doug

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aldrich from white snake

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and again i have to thank doug every

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single night and when

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uh

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when doug and i were talking about the

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bumper music bumper music is a very

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personal thing for any radio host

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and it sets the tone it's personality

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it's the way people are and

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and doug's music uh

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you know i help produce an engineer and

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all that stuff and so i have a personal

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connection with it but also i really

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enjoy the music and it sets the tone

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keeps things upbeat

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and

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when uh

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you know doug listened to the show and

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he said you know what let's do this well

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it's a very personal thing and so when

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you listen to that music tonight you

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have to understand that that music is me

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and that's the reason why every single

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night i just have to thank doug

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for allowing us

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to have the privilege of having his

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music on the show and that's who it is

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doug aldridge okay the forms page as

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always

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go over and participate tonight

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the uh

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uh subjects that we're going to cover

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with philip i will jump over to the

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forums page and get all of that updated

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and i'll hang out just like i do after

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every show

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and i i i know that we're going to talk

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about the alien autopsy that's one of

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the things and he's got a new book out

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and we're going to talk about that a

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little bit too but uh we're going to

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talk about the current events over in

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the uk and i do want to talk about

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randall shim forest and the thing is

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about rendelsham

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it's uh it's a it's an old event

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and we're all familiar with it but for

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some reason

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in the last

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six months or so the last year

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it there's been this huge resurgence of

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this

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all over television um all over the

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internet books are coming out

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and it's it's something that just won't

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go away

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and he's over there and i know

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uh in my past conversations with philip

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that you know he's been on location he's

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checked it out he's he's met just you

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know just about everybody that's

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involved and interviewed

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and i i i don't know uh where that's

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going to go tonight but i'm very curious

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the one thing that i want to know is how

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does england how does great britain feel

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about rendlesham do they talk about it

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like we do

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and it just seems like you can't escape

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it today all right

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now i am battling a cold if there's any

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gaps today

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tonight there's any gaps i'm sneezing

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i'm muting and i am sneezing

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i am battling a brutal cold okay just

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stay with me and and bear with me

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through all of that okay i appreciate it

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over on stag stan's blog

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at jimmychurchradio.com go over and

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check out the go beckley teppy article

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that he's got there are pictures posted

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i mentioned it last night go back lee

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tepe is important to all of us and part

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of the reasons uh

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for doing this show is to teach

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i want everybody to learn something

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there's something out there all the time

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and gobekli tepi is one of those

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subjects

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and uh look at the pictures and

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understand

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one thing

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14 000 years old 12 000 to 14 000 years

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old it's an insane

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subject

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go and check out gobekli tepe over at

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artbell.com by the way i mentioned

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yesterday

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you need to go and look at this uh real

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ghost caught on camera this videotape go

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and and check that out it was a shot at

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the the klopp hill church ruins

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and also there's a ufo contest and

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there's a little form underneath where

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you can comment

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on this videotape

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now go and check that out as well very

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cool

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and yesterday

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uh when

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we were doing the interview with dr

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greer

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we brought up uh i think he did

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malmstrom air force base and we talked a

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little bit about bob salas and there was

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a

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uh

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serious disclosure of bob salas talking

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about

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the event up at malmstrom air force base

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and as you know

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we interviewed colonel salas on the show

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last month or the month before

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about the malmstrom air force base

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incident

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today on

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cnn it's reported by cnn this is the

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headline air force chief site system uh

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systemic problems

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as nuke cheating scandal grows

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now check this out

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air force secretary deborah lee james

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said uh today

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00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:49,279
thursday that 92 officers from the

286
00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:52,000
malmstrom air force base in montana are

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now implicated in a scandal over a

288
00:12:00,630 --> 00:11:58,800
proficiency test administered last year

289
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:00,640
now a couple of weeks ago when the story

290
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,040
broke i didn't i didn't bring it up at

291
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:05,279
that point there was 34 officers

292
00:12:11,870 --> 00:12:07,680
originally brought up in this but it's

293
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:11,880
with a 341 the 341st

294
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:14,639
341st missile wing

295
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:16,079
now

296
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:18,000
why is this a big deal well it's a

297
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:19,920
couple of things number one

298
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:23,760
they operate about a third of the

299
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:26,480
minuteman 3 nuclear missiles

300
00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:27,360
uh

301
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:28,560
that we

302
00:12:34,069 --> 00:12:31,680
have pointed around the world

303
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:34,079
now that is an insane thing to think

304
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:35,120
about

305
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,079
and

306
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:38,720
the other thing is

307
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:41,360
who is operating these missiles now

308
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:43,680
if they have just brought down now these

309
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:46,000
92 officers by the way

310
00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:48,399
have been declassified

311
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:51,200
decertified meaning that they cannot

312
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:55,519
carry out any nuclear related duties

313
00:12:58,470 --> 00:12:56,560
now

314
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:58,480
what's g are they going to be replaced

315
00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:00,240
are they going to have to retake the

316
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:03,279
test now that they've cheated and lied

317
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:05,200
is that who we want manning these

318
00:13:10,629 --> 00:13:07,680
missiles but this is the deal this is

319
00:13:11,509 --> 00:13:10,639
the same air force base

320
00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:11,519
that

321
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:12,399
uh

322
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:13,760
well they've had a lot of problems in

323
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:16,160
the past but this is the one where

324
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:16,959
uh

325
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:17,760
a

326
00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:30,000
in

327
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:33,600
not only that

328
00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:36,399
last year malmstrom air force base

329
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,360
failed a safety and security inspection

330
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:41,760
and this is just the latest incident

331
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:43,760
they had this last year they had the

332
00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:46,959
other incident that happened in 1967

333
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:48,800
and it's a crazy thing you have to

334
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:51,920
remember that this is our nation's first

335
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:54,320
line of defense

336
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:56,160
poor malmstrom

337
00:14:02,470 --> 00:13:59,839
you know they just can't escape it i i

338
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:02,480
this is paid to black i'm your host

339
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:03,760
jimmy church

340
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:05,519
going to take a quick break we are on

341
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:08,160
the dark matter radio network

342
00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:10,800
and we are setting up right now

343
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:12,560
getting everything ready for philip

344
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,880
nattle when we come back we should be up

345
00:14:39,269 --> 00:14:16,800
and ready to go

346
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:41,509
you're listening to jimmy church fade to

347
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:48,550
what's up revolutionaries it's me jimmy

348
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:52,079
church do you have an irs or state tax

349
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:52,959
issue

350
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:56,240
well i did and i called national tax

351
00:15:02,949 --> 00:15:00,240
experts my problems were fixed done for

352
00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:02,959
me and man i gotta tell you it was a

353
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:04,240
relief

354
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:07,040
national tax experts are recognized tax

355
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:09,360
office that services clients in all 50

356
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:11,440
states doesn't matter where you live

357
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:13,519
give them a call i'm telling you they

358
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:15,680
take the time to understand each and

359
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:17,519
every client's individual financial

360
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:20,240
status as well as their financial goals

361
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:22,000
and that's exactly what you need my

362
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:23,680
brother when you're taking on the evil

363
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:26,639
three letter so seriously give them a

364
00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:35,990
again 1-877-909-5444

365
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:38,389
or go check out their website dub dub

366
00:15:43,829 --> 00:15:41,680
dub nat tax experts dot com that's

367
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:43,839
n-a-t-t-a-x

368
00:16:11,269 --> 00:15:49,350
dot com tell them jimmy sent you

369
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:12,949
oh yeah

370
00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:15,519
yeah yeah

371
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:17,040
welcome back everybody paid to black i'm

372
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,680
your host jimmy church

373
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:21,120
kjcr

374
00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:23,519
on the dark matter radio network

375
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:25,519
it is thursday it's a beautiful day

376
00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:27,759
beautiful night a little nippy outside

377
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:32,079
and i am battling the cold of doom

378
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:34,160
do you hear me sniffle if you hear me

379
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:36,720
breathe heavy

380
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:41,910
yeah i just might

381
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:43,680
might not make it through the show i'll

382
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:45,519
do everything that i can follow us on

383
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:51,350
follow us

384
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:52,959
like us

385
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:54,399
subscribe

386
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:56,160
i get a lot of emails throughout the

387
00:16:59,430 --> 00:16:57,040
week

388
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:59,440
uh as we are patiently waiting uh for

389
00:17:02,710 --> 00:17:01,519
the uplink uh to get started here for

390
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:02,720
philip

391
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:04,720
uh i get email throughout the week where

392
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:06,799
can we listen to the show i need i miss

393
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:08,720
the show where can i listen to the show

394
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:10,640
i'm i'm dumbfounded with that for a

395
00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:12,640
couple of reasons number one this is an

396
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:15,839
internet-based show currently

397
00:17:18,549 --> 00:17:16,880
you never know what the future is going

398
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,559
gonna hold but currently it's on the

399
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:20,160
internet which means

400
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:22,160
you're sitting at a computer

401
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:23,199
which means you're at

402
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:25,919
jimmychurchradio.com

403
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:26,959
you can

404
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:29,120
navigate the website go to the

405
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:31,280
highlights page

406
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:33,679
you know youtube the the links are right

407
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:36,080
there go subscribe to youtube subscribe

408
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:37,280
to the channel

409
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:39,520
we post everything as the show's

410
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:42,720
complete we post them we are currently

411
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,240
looking

412
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:46,240
we've been shopping around and trying to

413
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:48,960
find the best podcast service for

414
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:50,160
everybody

415
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:52,880
and as soon as we get that done

416
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:54,720
we will uh

417
00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:56,400
get all of the podcast information up

418
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:58,559
there for you but in the meantime

419
00:18:02,110 --> 00:18:00,400
there's the youtube channel

420
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:02,120
go to the highlights page at

421
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,080
chemicaltrader.com the shows are posted

422
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:06,400
there if you want to subscribe to

423
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:09,280
youtube go over there all the shows are

424
00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:10,240
there

425
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:12,720
you don't have to email me you know it's

426
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:14,400
just it's crazy

427
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:17,280
and i'm not i'm not in any way

428
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:19,440
you know just saying hey man come on

429
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:21,120
don't you have a brain i'm not saying

430
00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:23,360
that i'm saying i thought that we made

431
00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:26,000
everything really simple for everybody

432
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:27,919
so all the past shows are right there go

433
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:29,520
to the highlights page

434
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:31,360
and you can check that out

435
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:33,120
i had a bunch of sports stuff up there i

436
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,320
took it down

437
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:36,320
painful to watch

438
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:38,880
and uh i love the new life

439
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,520
all right i think we're just about ready

440
00:18:44,190 --> 00:18:43,360
shoot me an email throughout the show

441
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:44,200
jimmy

442
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:50,799
will send them into me the best email if

443
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:52,799
you get through that first level

444
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:56,400
then it is brought in here to the studio

445
00:19:02,190 --> 00:19:00,080
and i will ask philip a question in real

446
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,200
time shoot me an email to jimmy

447
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:04,559
chimmychurchradio.com all right and we

448
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:06,720
will have pictures

449
00:19:12,870 --> 00:19:10,400
posted throughout the show on uh

450
00:19:14,549 --> 00:19:12,880
on the website jimmychurchradio.com

451
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:14,559
about the subjects that we are talking

452
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:16,400
about the website is completely

453
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:19,039
interactive i'm very proud

454
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:21,200
of the way that we've got all of that

455
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:23,760
set up so you can just sit there

456
00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:25,440
listen to the interview

457
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,919
and look at uh the stuff that we post in

458
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:29,919
real time on the website all right which

459
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:31,440
means every time you hear me mention

460
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:33,600
something just refresh the page or you

461
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:36,320
know get stuff up there okay all right i

462
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:39,600
think we're just about ready

463
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:41,360
let's get this cracking

464
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:43,760
phillip mantle is the editor of ufo

465
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:45,919
today magazine and is the former

466
00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:47,600
director of investigations for the

467
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:50,960
british ufo research association

468
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,520
he is also former mutual ufo networks

469
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:55,679
representative for england and is an

470
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:57,520
honorary member of the research

471
00:20:02,310 --> 00:19:59,600
institute on anomalous phenomena in the

472
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:02,320
ukraine he is an international lecturer

473
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:04,880
on the subject of ufos and has also

474
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:07,200
worked for a variety of tv and radio

475
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:09,280
companies around the world

476
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:11,600
his books have been published in six

477
00:20:16,870 --> 00:20:14,400
different languages his most recent book

478
00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:16,880
is a novel on alien abduction called

479
00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:20,000
once upon a missing time based off his

480
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:22,720
years of research into the topic

481
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:26,000
i would like to welcome live from the uk

482
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:29,120
editor of ufo today

483
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:32,159
mr philip mantle philip are you with us

484
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:33,760
i am good morning

485
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:36,000
good morning what time is it there

486
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:36,799
well

487
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:38,880
it's an awful hour i think it's three

488
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:40,480
o'clock in the morning

489
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:42,000
i didn't know there was a three o'clock

490
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,200
in the morning i thought it was only

491
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:45,039
three o'clock in the afternoon there you

492
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:47,200
go it's funny because when you and i

493
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:48,720
were talking earlier this week about

494
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:50,640
coming on the show and you said is it

495
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:54,000
live what time am i going to be up here

496
00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:56,640
and i just felt bad about that and you

497
00:21:01,270 --> 00:20:59,440
know that hence the time difference and

498
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:01,280
and uh but we do appreciate you coming

499
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:03,760
in i'm very excited you ready to go

500
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:05,039
yeah ready

501
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:06,960
all right i start off every interview

502
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:09,840
and the audience here is quite used to

503
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:12,240
what i'm about to say but i just started

504
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:16,000
off the same with each guest which is

505
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:18,000
this is just a conversation it's

506
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:19,679
unscripted we're just sitting in my

507
00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:20,960
living room

508
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:22,720
sharing a couple of pints if you know

509
00:21:26,789 --> 00:21:24,000
what i mean and we're just going to see

510
00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:26,799
where the conversation goes

511
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:29,440
that sounds fine by me okay

512
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:30,480
um

513
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:32,240
well you know i'm gonna start off with

514
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:34,320
something a little bit generic but for

515
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:37,120
everybody over here that may not uh and

516
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:38,640
our audience does reach around the world

517
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:40,960
by the way but that may not be familiar

518
00:21:47,110 --> 00:21:45,120
with you um how did you get into this

519
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,120
crazy world

520
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:49,120
of you following me i mean i've always

521
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:51,120
had an interest in what i would would

522
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:52,880
deem the paranormal

523
00:21:57,029 --> 00:21:54,880
uh i mean going back

524
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:57,039
way back to when i was a a young boy at

525
00:22:02,070 --> 00:21:59,760
school um we used to have a thing when

526
00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:02,080
we we'd had the summer holidays we'd

527
00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:03,520
come back to school and the teacher

528
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:05,200
would say right you know you stand up in

529
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:06,240
the class

530
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:07,679
tell people what you've been doing on

531
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:10,240
your summer holidays so you know

532
00:22:13,830 --> 00:22:11,600
some people have been to the to the

533
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:13,840
beach some people have been off in our

534
00:22:18,310 --> 00:22:15,840
holidays overseas you know i've been to

535
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:18,320
the spiritualist church with a with a

536
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:20,880
friend's grandma so as far back as i can

537
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:23,600
remember i i always had an interest in

538
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:25,120
in all things

539
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:26,960
paranormal on you as you will call it

540
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:29,200
what you will didn't wasn't a great one

541
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:30,960
for pulling the girls at school i can

542
00:22:33,669 --> 00:22:32,080
assure you

543
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,679
right right

544
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:35,440
but you know so as far back as i can

545
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:38,480
remember i've always had an interest

546
00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:41,360
have you did you ever witness anything

547
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:43,520
that kind of stirred the pot and and

548
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:46,000
then you know pushed you over the edge

549
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:47,200
well yeah i mean

550
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:49,520
my initial interest was was was the

551
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:51,360
paranormal it was ghosts you know

552
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:53,440
spirits that kind of thing

553
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:54,720
and then

554
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:56,480
running alongside of that i used to have

555
00:23:01,750 --> 00:22:59,280
a an active interest in astronomy a

556
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:01,760
space program and so on now a friend and

557
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:05,120
i um went to the the west country of

558
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:06,240
england

559
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,400
into a county of wiltshire

560
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:10,799
um to visit a chap there who had his own

561
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:13,919
uh observatory built his own observatory

562
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:16,400
on one particular night we couldn't use

563
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:17,919
the telescope i don't know if it was

564
00:23:21,669 --> 00:23:20,080
cloudy or whatever

565
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:21,679
but uh i was reading a book and it

566
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:23,679
mentioned a town called warminster in

567
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:25,679
wiltshire and apparently they've been

568
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:27,919
all these things called you know ufos

569
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:30,720
cited there back in the 1960s well we

570
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:33,120
were only a short drive away so we

571
00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:35,039
didn't have anything better to do

572
00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:38,720
off we went we found this local hillside

573
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:40,400
it's called cradle hill

574
00:23:44,149 --> 00:23:42,080
stuck ourselves on top of the hill and

575
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,159
lo and behold we saw some unusual lights

576
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:46,480
that we certainly couldn't explain in

577
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:48,400
astronomical terms it wasn't the planets

578
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:51,120
the stars you know or whatever

579
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:53,360
it may have had a rational explanation

580
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:55,440
because we were unfamiliar with the area

581
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:58,240
however that sparked the interest i

582
00:24:02,310 --> 00:23:59,840
thought well i'll ask a few questions

583
00:24:03,909 --> 00:24:02,320
about this ufo topic i'm sure it will

584
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:03,919
only take me a short while and i'll find

585
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:06,559
out everything i know and here i am that

586
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:08,960
was back in the late 1970s

587
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:11,679
right here all those years later

588
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:12,480
um

589
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:15,840
with i want to touch on a a few things

590
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:17,039
uh

591
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:19,200
directly related to england because

592
00:24:23,269 --> 00:24:21,360
we're over here you're over there you've

593
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:23,279
got your finger on the pulse but uh

594
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:24,960
right on

595
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:25,760
uh

596
00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:28,880
the news over here is this heathrow

597
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:30,880
incident do you have anything because it

598
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:33,279
it seems to have

599
00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:36,240
faded away over here in the media

600
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:38,960
is there anything that you know of over

601
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:40,320
there that uh

602
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:42,559
any follow-up on what happened

603
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:45,360
not at all it seems to have been a uh

604
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:47,360
you know a one minute wandering in in

605
00:24:51,909 --> 00:24:50,000
the in the media both local and national

606
00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:51,919
right and i know it made the you know

607
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:53,520
the headlines in different parts of the

608
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:55,760
world and then he has quite literally

609
00:25:01,830 --> 00:24:58,640
died of death when you inquire at places

610
00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:01,840
like heathrow you don't get a response

611
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:04,159
the ministry of defense will no longer

612
00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:06,240
no longer answer your inquiries they say

613
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:08,480
we don't investigate ufos anymore right

614
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:09,760
we've released everything to the

615
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,559
national archives so unless you know

616
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:14,720
there's somebody who's willing to stand

617
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:17,279
up and be counted you know who was there

618
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:19,360
at the time perhaps witnessed this

619
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:21,840
particular incident then you know we're

620
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:23,919
left in limbo and that can happen of

621
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:25,840
course that can happen maybe not

622
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:28,400
straight away but we'll just have to

623
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:31,679
wait and see well it just seems uh and

624
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:34,559
again by all accounts from over here

625
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:36,640
again you're there so you know i'm sure

626
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:38,720
the reporting that you hear is a

627
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:41,200
slightly different version you know that

628
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:42,960
then we get over here probably a little

629
00:25:45,510 --> 00:25:44,720
more honest i don't know

630
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:45,520
but

631
00:25:49,269 --> 00:25:47,039
that you know there was actually there

632
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:49,279
was official

633
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:52,480
reports on this sighting and it just you

634
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:54,400
know from from the government and then

635
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:55,760
all of a sudden

636
00:25:59,430 --> 00:25:58,559
silence and i was just fascinated with

637
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:59,440
that

638
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:01,840
no what we're intending to do

639
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:04,240
is uh file a request

640
00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:05,520
because we now have the freedom of

641
00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:07,600
information act which we didn't have at

642
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:10,480
one point right uh and we have uh the

643
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:12,799
sick what we have we call it the civil

644
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:14,960
aviation authority whereas you have the

645
00:26:18,630 --> 00:26:17,200
federal aviation authority

646
00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:18,640
so we're going to

647
00:26:23,269 --> 00:26:20,799
file a request through those we've

648
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:23,279
purposely left it a while so if there's

649
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:25,200
any documentation

650
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:27,200
flying around we want to give it time to

651
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:28,880
settle and accumulate

652
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:30,799
for example if you're if sometimes if

653
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:32,640
you're if you're really hot

654
00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:34,799
and you file this request straight away

655
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:36,559
the paper they haven't got the paperwork

656
00:26:40,149 --> 00:26:38,080
by that time there isn't a paper trail

657
00:26:42,149 --> 00:26:40,159
to follow you've been too quick

658
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:42,159
so just let the dust settle a little bit

659
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:44,799
right wait and see what happens file the

660
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:47,120
appropriate request and then you know

661
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:49,360
we'll we'll deal with it accordingly

662
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:50,799
with um

663
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:53,360
rendell shim and i'm not changing gears

664
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:54,320
here

665
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:56,960
but i'm actually staying focused on

666
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:58,240
great britain

667
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:01,120
uh with rendlesham over here

668
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:05,440
the last and i'm gonna say six months

669
00:27:09,230 --> 00:27:07,200
maybe reaching back to about a year but

670
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,240
there has been a sudden

671
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:12,320
resurgence of interest

672
00:27:16,149 --> 00:27:14,880
in the rental shim case books are being

673
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:16,159
published

674
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:17,360
uh

675
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:20,240
on television here i can't speak for the

676
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:21,440
uk but

677
00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:22,799
here it just seems like there's

678
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,760
something on rendelsham 24 hours a day

679
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:27,440
seven days a week

680
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:30,880
on on the network uh you know cable and

681
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:32,880
satellite feeds over here

682
00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:34,799
is it the same thing over there do you

683
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:36,640
guys look at randall shim the same way

684
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,679
that the united states audience does

685
00:27:44,390 --> 00:27:41,840
not at all no i mean there's very little

686
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:44,400
in in the media here um

687
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:45,919
some of the television that's been made

688
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:49,120
in the united states as filtered through

689
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:51,200
uh via the satellite channels and that

690
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:54,399
kind of thing but it's not big news here

691
00:27:58,549 --> 00:27:56,559
at the moment anyway

692
00:28:00,870 --> 00:27:58,559
we may see some of that we mentioned

693
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:00,880
there's a new book coming out by nick

694
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:02,799
pope yep uh john burroughs and jim

695
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:05,279
peniston yeah i think that's out

696
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:06,720
march time

697
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:09,200
uh nick will be over here later in the

698
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:11,360
year he now lives in the united states

699
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:13,919
of course so that will probably raise

700
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:15,200
some interest

701
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:17,760
but no it's it's not the great big news

702
00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:20,799
story that perhaps it is in the usa

703
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:21,919
do the

704
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:22,960
uh

705
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,679
do the brits in general do they consider

706
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:27,840
you know rendel shim their roswell is

707
00:28:31,269 --> 00:28:30,399
that the way that uh it's perceived over

708
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:31,279
there

709
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:33,120
absolutely i mean

710
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:34,960
there's many good things about it it's

711
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:37,039
known as our most um

712
00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:39,200
notable case it's the one that's best

713
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:40,880
known in that respect

714
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:42,640
and there's a prime example of what we

715
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:45,120
were just discussing regarding heathrow

716
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:47,120
when rendlesham happened

717
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,240
the the the various ufo research groups

718
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:52,559
were notified about it relatively

719
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:53,760
quickly

720
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:55,840
both in the area and further up country

721
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:57,200
where i live

722
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,440
but nobody came forward it took a while

723
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:01,440
for for it to filter out and then of

724
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:03,600
course larry warren was the first to go

725
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:05,840
on the record some years later right

726
00:29:11,029 --> 00:29:09,279
finally filtered its way out and um so

727
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:11,039
you know that could happen with with

728
00:29:16,389 --> 00:29:13,200
events that he throw on other places

729
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:16,399
were you able to interview any uh any of

730
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:18,320
the witnesses

731
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:20,720
uh i've met some of them not at the time

732
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:24,559
um i've met um the deputy base commander

733
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:27,039
colonel holt right i've met larry warren

734
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:28,320
a number of occasions i've managed to

735
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:31,279
speak to jim peniston on the telephone

736
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:33,919
and um i was the first person for

737
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,840
example we have a piece of paper it's

738
00:29:39,029 --> 00:29:37,440
called the halt memo

739
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:39,039
right a few days after the incident

740
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:41,600
colonel halt wrote a memo about it sent

741
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:44,159
it to the minister defense and to him

742
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:46,960
the united states air force headquarters

743
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,240
for years

744
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:50,559
our minister of defense denied any

745
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:52,480
knowledge of it and said they had no

746
00:29:57,669 --> 00:29:55,440
paperwork on it at all of course that

747
00:29:59,669 --> 00:29:57,679
document first surfaced

748
00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:59,679
in the united states under the freedom

749
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:01,200
of information act

750
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:04,000
and i i i submitted a further request to

751
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:05,840
the minister defense and they finally

752
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:07,520
admitted they had it

753
00:30:12,149 --> 00:30:09,679
and released it accordingly it's a very

754
00:30:14,549 --> 00:30:12,159
important document it's only one page

755
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,559
but it does detail it you know in brief

756
00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:16,320
some of the events that happened and

757
00:30:20,789 --> 00:30:18,399
he's signed by

758
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:20,799
charles holtz colonel holt

759
00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:22,320
it's not a piece of paper that

760
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,159
mysteriously appeared through someone's

761
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:26,399
letterbox and it can't be verified right

762
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:29,360
you know it is the genuine article

763
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:32,480
have you been to the uh scene out in the

764
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:34,080
forest

765
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:36,000
i have indeed some years ago now it's

766
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,159
quite it's quite different now compared

767
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:40,480
to what it was way back in in 1980 when

768
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:42,480
these incidents happened uh there is

769
00:30:45,909 --> 00:30:43,520
even a

770
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:45,919
an official ufo trail now there's some

771
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:48,640
signs showing you which way to go but uh

772
00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:50,880
all of the forest initially

773
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,880
we had a big storm not long after that

774
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:54,960
that uh took a lot of the trees down of

775
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:56,080
course some of them

776
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,840
have been uh cut down because it's on

777
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:59,840
some forestry commission land so you

778
00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:00,720
know

779
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:02,960
it's there for a purpose so it is a good

780
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:05,360
bit different but yes i have been on

781
00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:06,880
that location

782
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:11,200
um how do when you have met with uh the

783
00:31:14,789 --> 00:31:13,200
various witnesses and you know you just

784
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:14,799
mentioned peniston and hal or you've

785
00:31:19,510 --> 00:31:16,799
talked to pennison on the phone how do

786
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,520
you feel i i i

787
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:21,360
okay let me back up a little bit i'm not

788
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:23,039
a skeptic on this case i know that

789
00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:25,600
something happened there

790
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:28,960
but it seems to me that the story has

791
00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:31,039
gotten has gotten a little more

792
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:35,200
fantastic as time has passed

793
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:37,120
how do you feel about the credibility of

794
00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:38,480
everybody that's involved they're all

795
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:40,159
going to be on the show next month after

796
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:43,760
the these two books come out so we'll uh

797
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:45,760
uh you know we'll start to tackle it

798
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:47,760
then but how did you feel about the

799
00:31:52,389 --> 00:31:50,080
sincerity of everybody

800
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:52,399
i think that if you look uh you know at

801
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:55,279
this closely the the basic story has

802
00:31:59,909 --> 00:31:57,679
always remained the same right

803
00:32:02,389 --> 00:31:59,919
penny stone and burrows you know when

804
00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:02,399
they recount the the the the night in

805
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:05,360
question in late december 1980 that

806
00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:08,240
hasn't changed also with colonel holt

807
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:10,880
who went out the following evening

808
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:12,640
um he actually recorded some of the

809
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:15,200
events on his own dictaphone right which

810
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:17,600
you can't change it's long been released

811
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:20,480
both audio and has been a transcript

812
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:23,440
and colonel holt's you know testimony

813
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,640
hasn't deviated one iota

814
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:28,559
he took a while to release it because he

815
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:31,279
was you know initially still involved

816
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:32,960
with the united states air force but

817
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:34,799
when he retired he he told the whole

818
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:37,279
story so to speak which you would expect

819
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:39,519
him that's what he would do you know he

820
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:41,279
was a career officer

821
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,559
um i know you know pennies and burrows

822
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:47,039
have added things down the years but um

823
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:48,720
that they've given their their reasons

824
00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:49,679
for it

825
00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:51,919
uh and i'm sure they'll elaborate that

826
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:54,960
more in the book when it comes out

827
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:57,039
and not only that you know nick pope has

828
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:59,279
has gone on on record

829
00:33:02,789 --> 00:33:01,039
with the book as co-author and you know

830
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:02,799
nick is a man who i trust

831
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:04,960
uh implicitly i used to pester nick when

832
00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:06,880
he worked at the minister defense i know

833
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:08,880
you didn't report

834
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:10,960
because he tied his name to it and his

835
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:12,640
reputation i think that that gives it a

836
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:14,240
lot of credence

837
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:16,559
um okay let's change gears a little bit

838
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:19,360
um i the the randall shim case for me i

839
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:21,919
mean i'll just leave it here i something

840
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:23,120
happened

841
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:26,640
and i'm not gonna let it go i just i

842
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:28,399
wish there was a way to get to the

843
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:31,120
bottom of everything and somebody knows

844
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,039
something over in the uk

845
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:35,679
and even though with uh your freedom of

846
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:37,760
information act and i know that nick

847
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:39,440
says that you know everything has been

848
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:42,240
released i i just don't think so and and

849
00:33:45,669 --> 00:33:43,600
i think there's

850
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:45,679
quite a bit of uh there's a lot of

851
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:48,000
people inside the government that know a

852
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:49,760
lot about the case and

853
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:51,600
and uh it's just not being talked about

854
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:53,039
and that's that's my personal view i

855
00:33:56,470 --> 00:33:54,720
don't have any inside information i

856
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,480
don't well i'll give you an example i

857
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:58,640
mean i mean a couple of years back i

858
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:00,720
interviewed a wing commander

859
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:03,760
it's called alan turner retired he also

860
00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:06,320
been honored by the queen he has an obe

861
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:09,040
and he wasn't referring to reynoldshim

862
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:11,440
but when commander turner's security

863
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:14,320
classification back in the 1960s and 70s

864
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:17,040
was so high that when the american spy

865
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:19,839
plane flew into the uk to refuel or

866
00:34:24,790 --> 00:34:22,560
whatever he was notified about it you

867
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:24,800
know and at that point it was the most

868
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:27,919
secret aircraft in the world right and

869
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:30,879
he was on duty on the radar

870
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:33,440
and i cut a long story very short they

871
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:35,839
tracked six unidentified targets over

872
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:38,960
mainland britain it was also trapped at

873
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:41,520
heathrow and another military radar

874
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:44,480
station now wing commander turner

875
00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:46,159
spoke to the minister defense

876
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:48,000
immediately

877
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:50,399
and they informed him he had to submit a

878
00:34:53,909 --> 00:34:52,320
full report which he did

879
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:53,919
but can you find that anywhere in the

880
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:56,639
ministry defense files not on your life

881
00:35:01,910 --> 00:34:58,800
it's not there and that's just one

882
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:01,920
incidence so like you say sometimes it's

883
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:03,599
not what is there

884
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:05,520
what's been it's what what's not there

885
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:08,320
where did it go who sat on it you know

886
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:10,000
and this is just one of several internet

887
00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:12,079
it's not a one-off there are others so

888
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:14,079
it would not surprise me if we go back

889
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:16,880
to rendelsham the other information

890
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:18,960
you know the ministry defense in respect

891
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:20,560
aren't lying they have released what

892
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:23,119
they've got right other material when

893
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:26,079
elsewhere where that may be i don't know

894
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:30,560
well when you request uh information

895
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,520
uh are you doing it in general terms uh

896
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:35,760
i mean how do you go about that and and

897
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:37,920
what if you had a specific

898
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:39,520
document

899
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,240
like this case uh with this with the six

900
00:35:47,109 --> 00:35:44,880
uh unidentified objects

901
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:47,119
can you specifically request something i

902
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:48,160
mean

903
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,440
minister defense you'll get the standard

904
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:55,760
reply they will just say we have

905
00:35:59,829 --> 00:35:58,000
released everything to the the national

906
00:36:02,870 --> 00:35:59,839
archives right

907
00:36:04,390 --> 00:36:02,880
and you can be as specific as you want

908
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:04,400
and but you'll still get the same

909
00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:06,079
standard reply

910
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:09,040
because this incident like you're saying

911
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:12,320
this incident the six objects those you

912
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:14,880
know there there's a paper trail on that

913
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:16,320
but it doesn't seem to have been

914
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:17,359
released

915
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:18,800
that's right i mean

916
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:20,800
like with with wing commander turner i

917
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:23,280
mean where his information ended up we

918
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:24,800
don't know there's another incident

919
00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:27,520
where a police officer in in west

920
00:36:32,710 --> 00:36:30,800
yorkshire had a sighting again i

921
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:32,720
cut a long story short he submitted an

922
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:34,240
official report

923
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:36,400
um that's not in the ministry defense

924
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:39,680
files either you know so where they've

925
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:41,119
ended up

926
00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:43,599
your guess is as good as mine do you can

927
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:46,240
you give the ministry of defense a maybe

928
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:49,280
a a pass card a hall pass

929
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,200
get out of jail free card and that

930
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:53,440
maybe they don't know that the documents

931
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:55,440
exist but they are there

932
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:57,040
well that's it i mean it's a play on

933
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,480
words isn't it we have released

934
00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:59,920
everything we have

935
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:01,359
that we know about

936
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:07,670
somebody else has it you know not them

937
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:10,400
you like stirring the pot don't you well

938
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:12,480
it's it's the truth i mean we know

939
00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:14,079
they've lied in the past because they

940
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:16,560
lied about having the halt memo

941
00:37:21,430 --> 00:37:19,280
right right and eventually when it came

942
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:21,440
out in the u.s they could no longer deny

943
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:24,320
it and we we got them to release it so

944
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:26,800
they lied you know but

945
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:28,800
there's an old saying as well i think

946
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:30,240
i'm not sure if it comes from the us or

947
00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:32,720
the uk they call it stonewalling

948
00:37:35,910 --> 00:37:34,400
you know they don't they tell you things

949
00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:35,920
but don't actually tell you anything

950
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:37,920
yeah we call it the same thing here

951
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:38,880
yeah

952
00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:41,200
and that's exactly the same

953
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,079
how um i i want to ask you about a ufo

954
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:47,040
today really quick um well first off uh

955
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:48,800
congratulations and

956
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:50,720
and how did you get it started and how

957
00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:53,040
are you doing now how is it how's it

958
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:55,040
going for you yeah it's going good i

959
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:56,320
mean um

960
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:58,000
how it got started was that our

961
00:38:01,910 --> 00:38:00,400
publisher is called dead good publishing

962
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:01,920
that published a number of print

963
00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:04,079
magazines and digital publications in

964
00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:05,200
the past

965
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:07,440
and one of their paranormal magazines i

966
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:09,760
used to write a regular column for it

967
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:11,680
and it was called tales from the mantle

968
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:14,640
piece you know for obvious reasons i've

969
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:16,960
read them yeah about ufos and they said

970
00:38:21,589 --> 00:38:19,200
you know phillip we've had a look around

971
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:21,599
there aren't that many ufo publications

972
00:38:26,950 --> 00:38:24,480
available would you be interested in in

973
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:26,960
in editing one we have a title for it

974
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:28,960
they picked the name not me

975
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:30,560
ufo today

976
00:38:34,630 --> 00:38:32,880
and um the first issue came out last

977
00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:34,640
november that was a bumper issue it was

978
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:36,240
a bi-monthly one

979
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:37,280
and it was

980
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:39,680
absolutely jam-packed

981
00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:43,440
but um the next issue which will be out

982
00:38:47,829 --> 00:38:45,680
in about three days time

983
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:47,839
will be monthly so we've shortened the

984
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:49,280
page count but we're going monthly

985
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:51,359
instead of bi-monthly such as being the

986
00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:52,720
interest people wanting it they don't

987
00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:55,280
want to wait two months so fair enough

988
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:56,960
we'll we'll go for it it's gonna it's

989
00:39:02,470 --> 00:38:58,640
gonna be every month

990
00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:02,480
is it both electronic and and analog

991
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,480
absolutely i mean you can't buy a paper

992
00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:06,480
copy we can we can download it in in

993
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:08,800
very every digital format you can think

994
00:39:14,710 --> 00:39:10,000
of

995
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:14,720
doing that you know the digital age is

996
00:39:19,109 --> 00:39:17,760
upon us we have to realize that

997
00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:19,119
it gives us a greater deal of

998
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:21,440
flexibility to do a digital publication

999
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:23,200
we're not restricted to page count we

1000
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:25,200
don't have any postage costs you can

1001
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:27,040
access it from anywhere in the world

1002
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,640
it's there instantly you're not waiting

1003
00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:30,240
for it dropping through your letterbox

1004
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:32,079
right and we can change things as and

1005
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:33,760
when we like we're not relying on a

1006
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:36,560
printer you know you know the post

1007
00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:38,880
office here is being sold and

1008
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:41,440
so it just makes sense it's it's a it's

1009
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,960
a ufo magazine for the 21st century how

1010
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:46,160
how um

1011
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:49,280
how is the uh

1012
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:50,960
the content that's the word i'm looking

1013
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:52,720
for

1014
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:54,640
do you have a problem with content today

1015
00:39:59,030 --> 00:39:56,720
with the way that the you know ufology

1016
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:59,040
has changed or do you do you have as

1017
00:40:02,230 --> 00:40:01,200
much as you did you know like it was

1018
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:02,240
years ago

1019
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:03,920
there's never any problem with with

1020
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:05,359
content i mean

1021
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,280
you know the way i look at it from an

1022
00:40:11,910 --> 00:40:09,359
editorial point of view there is no

1023
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:11,920
subject that we won't consider under the

1024
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:15,200
umbrella of ufos right and we also look

1025
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:16,960
back at

1026
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:18,960
archives material because we have to

1027
00:40:23,910 --> 00:40:21,920
remember like any subject new people are

1028
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:23,920
coming into it all the time so we can't

1029
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:26,079
expect them to know everything right so

1030
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:28,079
we'll look at historical and archive

1031
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:30,079
material as well as up-to-date things

1032
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:31,760
quirky things we'll look at ancient

1033
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:34,640
astronauts crop circles i mean you name

1034
00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:35,839
it we'll look at it we have an

1035
00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:37,040
international

1036
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:40,160
lineup of contributors and columnists

1037
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:42,800
uh you know and and you know one of the

1038
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:44,960
things that i i i struggle with is what

1039
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:46,720
to leave out of each issue rather than

1040
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:47,920
what to put in

1041
00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:49,760
and i have emails from people are you

1042
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:51,359
when are you going to publish my article

1043
00:40:55,670 --> 00:40:52,880
and i have you know so there's never

1044
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:55,680
there's never any shortage of material

1045
00:40:58,790 --> 00:40:56,880
i want to

1046
00:41:01,510 --> 00:40:58,800
change gears just a little bit but again

1047
00:41:03,910 --> 00:41:01,520
i'm staying on that side of the pond um

1048
00:41:05,670 --> 00:41:03,920
the belgian ufo wave when that happened

1049
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:05,680
the triangle wave when that happened

1050
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:07,920
that seemed to

1051
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:10,079
change what people were seeing in the

1052
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:12,880
skies around the world you know no

1053
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:15,920
longer that classic flying well

1054
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:17,920
let me back up i'm gonna let's go back a

1055
00:41:22,790 --> 00:41:20,400
couple of decades it seems like we've

1056
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:22,800
gone through phases of what people were

1057
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:25,119
seeing whether it's uh

1058
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:26,880
suggested or

1059
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,680
you know imagination or they were seeing

1060
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:31,359
them or you know they were authentic it

1061
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:33,119
doesn't matter but we went through a

1062
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:36,000
flying saucer phase the classic saucer

1063
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:37,280
and then you know the

1064
00:41:41,710 --> 00:41:40,079
cigar shape stuff and then suddenly

1065
00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:41,720
everything is

1066
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:43,280
triangle-shaped

1067
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:44,160
is

1068
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:46,000
why do you think that happened

1069
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:48,160
well i mean again we'll back up even

1070
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:51,359
further um we had a an aircraft here in

1071
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:53,920
in the uk yeah in the air force called

1072
00:41:58,150 --> 00:41:55,839
the vulcan bomber

1073
00:42:01,349 --> 00:41:58,160
beautiful service beautiful plane by the

1074
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:01,359
way beautiful big delta wing bomber yep

1075
00:42:07,109 --> 00:42:03,920
now throughout the 1970s

1076
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:07,119
we had a had ufo sightings here that we

1077
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:10,240
gave the nickname the silent vulcan

1078
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:13,200
a because it was triangular in shape

1079
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:15,359
b didn't make any noise it wasn't the

1080
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:16,800
vulcan bomber because if you ever see it

1081
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:18,319
it's a huge great thing and makes an

1082
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:21,040
awful an awful noise one of the loudest

1083
00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:22,800
i think it was the loudest aircraft at

1084
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:24,160
one point wasn't it

1085
00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:27,680
yeah so we already had those and then if

1086
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:29,119
you look at

1087
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:32,319
the wave the so-called um

1088
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:34,640
wave in belgium again if you just back

1089
00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:36,480
up a little bit if you go to the united

1090
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:38,720
states it actually started there in my

1091
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:41,440
opinion because in the mid 1980s

1092
00:42:45,349 --> 00:42:43,760
in westchester county which i believe is

1093
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:45,359
upstate new york

1094
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:47,119
there was a whole

1095
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:50,079
you know wave of boomerang triangular

1096
00:42:52,069 --> 00:42:51,280
sightings

1097
00:42:53,270 --> 00:42:52,079
um

1098
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:53,280
eventually was published in a book

1099
00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:54,880
called night siege

1100
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:56,640
that seemed to shift

1101
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:58,880
and then across uh the midlands of

1102
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:00,720
england and the north of england we had

1103
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:04,240
a again a wave of of triangle sightings

1104
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:06,560
some of which were witnessed by police

1105
00:43:11,109 --> 00:43:08,640
officers i mean we couldn't handle the

1106
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:11,119
amount of reports and then hey presto he

1107
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:13,359
seemed to pop up in belgium as as one

1108
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:16,000
part finished it moved somewhere else

1109
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:17,920
and then ended in belgium the thing

1110
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:20,160
about the belgium sightings of course

1111
00:43:24,829 --> 00:43:22,880
was that it was trapped on on radar

1112
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:24,839
uh by the by the belgian military

1113
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:27,920
aircraft and the powers that be there

1114
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:30,160
were quite open about it they've spoken

1115
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:31,920
on the record

1116
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:34,240
and have continued to do since uh do so

1117
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:36,480
ever since they they had an official

1118
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:38,079
investigation

1119
00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:40,000
and of course what happened was around

1120
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,160
about the same what popped up on on on

1121
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,319
the tv screens was the stealth fighter

1122
00:43:47,990 --> 00:43:46,319
and the stealth bomber right some people

1123
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:48,000
tried to put the two and two together

1124
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:50,240
however you don't fly the stealth bomber

1125
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:52,160
over a friendly country like belgium and

1126
00:43:56,950 --> 00:43:53,760
it certainly hadn't been flying over the

1127
00:43:59,030 --> 00:43:56,960
uk since the 1970s you know area one

1128
00:44:00,870 --> 00:43:59,040
nevada you've got some big places there

1129
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:00,880
where nobody lives that's the place you

1130
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:03,040
fly these things you know

1131
00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:04,319
and um

1132
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:06,400
i think it's just because of that you

1133
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:08,240
know this type of thing now catches the

1134
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:09,839
the imagination the head and the

1135
00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:10,960
headlines

1136
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:14,240
but if you look deeper into uh the sort

1137
00:44:17,510 --> 00:44:16,000
of ufo reports that the various

1138
00:44:19,829 --> 00:44:17,520
organizations

1139
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:19,839
uh receive around the world

1140
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:21,680
they're still quite mixed and again

1141
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:23,040
we'll go right back to the beginning

1142
00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:24,640
with kenneth owell he didn't see a

1143
00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:26,480
flying saucer

1144
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:29,599
no he did not it was delta shaped that's

1145
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:30,720
right

1146
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:33,280
so there was nothing new in that respect

1147
00:44:36,870 --> 00:44:34,800
but yes i mean it goes in what i think

1148
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:36,880
his waves of popularity what people are

1149
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:39,040
interested in so if you're in a

1150
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:40,400
publishing field you'll publish what

1151
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:43,119
people are interested in well it's the

1152
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:44,640
same with music you know music goes

1153
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:46,000
around in circles there'll be a rock and

1154
00:44:49,829 --> 00:44:48,000
roll revival and all these rock and roll

1155
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:49,839
groups will spring up out of nowhere you

1156
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,680
know whether they are whether to be well

1157
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:53,280
they were always there you know it's

1158
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:54,880
just that it's popular now

1159
00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:56,480
i think it's the same in ufology i don't

1160
00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:58,880
think it's any different are the the uh

1161
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:01,440
the triangles still being cited over or

1162
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:03,920
did did they just stop in you know

1163
00:45:09,109 --> 00:45:06,000
because and at one point in belgium it

1164
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:09,119
was it was in the thousands at one point

1165
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:10,720
absolutely i mean the bells and jeans

1166
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,520
armory reported it in in great numbers

1167
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:15,680
and uh they were on the lookout for it

1168
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:17,839
you know after the first sightings you

1169
00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:20,240
know they took it seriously they have a

1170
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:21,680
different perspective on this thing it

1171
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:23,440
was all it was handled pretty seriously

1172
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:25,839
right from day one where it's not so

1173
00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:27,680
much here and it's not not so much in

1174
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:29,119
the us but it was there there's

1175
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,000
different mindset in belgium you know uh

1176
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:34,160
and and we're thankful for it i mean we

1177
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:35,920
had belgian researchers over here

1178
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:37,599
lecturing about it you know as these

1179
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:39,359
things were literally happening

1180
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,800
and um

1181
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:42,240
you know i think it's to their credit

1182
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:43,760
they didn't dismiss it they didn't put

1183
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:46,720
any exotic explanations on it like i

1184
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:48,720
mentioned um wing commander turner

1185
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:51,040
earlier he he tracked these six objects

1186
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,480
he didn't say what they were they said

1187
00:45:56,069 --> 00:45:54,319
philip i can tell you what they weren't

1188
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:56,079
you know and the same happened with with

1189
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:57,680
the things in belgium

1190
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:59,280
you know they they couldn't tell you

1191
00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:00,880
what these things were

1192
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:01,920
they could just tell you what they

1193
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:03,839
weren't they could not get to grips with

1194
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:06,400
it no matter how they tried why do you

1195
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:08,960
think the belgians and one of the things

1196
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:11,920
that uh just still when i look back at

1197
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:14,880
that entire uh episode

1198
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:15,839
is

1199
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:19,040
the press conferences with with uh their

1200
00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:21,839
air force you know presenting the radar

1201
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:23,920
uh tapes right there for the press well

1202
00:46:27,109 --> 00:46:26,000
of course the the press was screaming

1203
00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:27,119
for it but

1204
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:29,760
they they went straight there and they

1205
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:30,720
revealed

1206
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:32,720
obviously they were concerned

1207
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:34,720
but and i'm still impressed with that

1208
00:46:38,069 --> 00:46:36,560
today but why

1209
00:46:40,950 --> 00:46:38,079
why won't

1210
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:40,960
great britain or the united states

1211
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,520
do the exact same thing wha what's the

1212
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:45,839
difference what made belgium so

1213
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,880
different

1214
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:48,640
well i don't know i mean we're just a

1215
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:49,839
different

1216
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:52,800
society i mean britain by by which very

1217
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:55,599
nature is much more conservative

1218
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,319
than a lot of europe um despite what

1219
00:47:01,670 --> 00:47:00,240
people may think so you know the old

1220
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:01,680
stiff upper lip

1221
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:03,760
we have a lot of red tape here in in the

1222
00:47:08,150 --> 00:47:06,240
uk even in today's modern society

1223
00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:08,160
certainly from on an official basis

1224
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:10,240
doesn't mean there's anything sinister

1225
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:11,760
you know it's just because that's the

1226
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:14,240
way it's always been it's just red tape

1227
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:16,800
and uh we even have laws here that

1228
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:18,560
perhaps aren't used anymore because

1229
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:20,000
they're still on the statute books that

1230
00:47:23,990 --> 00:47:22,079
go back to medieval times you know you

1231
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:24,000
you're not allowed to take your flock of

1232
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:25,839
sheep down the main highway at three

1233
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:27,760
o'clock in the morning you know you can

1234
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:29,280
talk on the radio at three o'clock in

1235
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:30,800
the morning but you can't do anything

1236
00:47:36,069 --> 00:47:33,760
else you know so i think a lot of it is

1237
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,079
red tape it's embarrassment that is

1238
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:38,400
still the stigma that is attached to the

1239
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:40,720
subject if you remember it hadn't been a

1240
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:42,480
big subject in belgium it's only a small

1241
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:44,800
country small population

1242
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:45,760
and

1243
00:47:49,270 --> 00:47:47,680
it was it wasn't what was seen it was

1244
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:49,280
the people that actually made these

1245
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:52,400
observations the john d'armery and then

1246
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:55,680
the air force who were highly respected

1247
00:48:00,309 --> 00:47:57,920
so they just took the stance that we

1248
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:00,319
have to take this seriously this is not

1249
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:03,280
some crackpot ringing up this is our own

1250
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:06,160
people specialist people people we we

1251
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:08,640
know and trust on a daily basis

1252
00:48:13,910 --> 00:48:11,359
and um and i think it's to their credit

1253
00:48:15,349 --> 00:48:13,920
they scrambled um and

1254
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:15,359
just correct me if i'm wrong here but

1255
00:48:21,670 --> 00:48:18,960
they scrambled a bunch of f-16s and and

1256
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:21,680
so forth up into the air trying to chase

1257
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:23,760
uh a few objects

1258
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:25,440
absolutely i mean when the gendarmer

1259
00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:27,040
were reporting these things they took it

1260
00:48:31,589 --> 00:48:29,040
seriously straight away

1261
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,599
and they were determined to try and um

1262
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:33,839
get as much information and they put two

1263
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:36,240
f-16s on standby

1264
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:40,000
and two f-16s one of which did intercept

1265
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:41,920
and got a radar lock on and they made

1266
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:44,480
that available to to the general public

1267
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:47,040
and um you know the the characteristics

1268
00:48:50,710 --> 00:48:48,960
that it shows on radar are unlike any

1269
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:50,720
aircraft that we're aware of

1270
00:48:55,190 --> 00:48:53,440
you know belgium's part of nato you know

1271
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:55,200
it's it's part of the defense there

1272
00:49:00,230 --> 00:48:56,960
these they weren't flying in sop with

1273
00:49:01,430 --> 00:49:00,240
camels you know these were f-16s exactly

1274
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:01,440
exactly

1275
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:05,680
break when we come back and by the way

1276
00:49:09,829 --> 00:49:07,680
we're talking to philip mental editor of

1277
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:09,839
ufo today well you know you're a

1278
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:11,520
broadcaster

1279
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:13,119
you're an author

1280
00:49:17,910 --> 00:49:15,359
you've you know i i don't know how you

1281
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:17,920
get it all done and but thank you for

1282
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:19,680
coming let's take a quick break when we

1283
00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:20,720
come back

1284
00:49:26,069 --> 00:49:23,599
i'm gonna really you know stick you know

1285
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:26,079
a sharp stick in in race and tilly's eye

1286
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:27,280
we're gonna talk about race and till are

1287
00:49:31,109 --> 00:49:28,880
you down for that phillip

1288
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:31,119
absolutely okay let's take a quick break

1289
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:33,200
this is kjcr

1290
00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:34,400
fade to black

1291
00:49:37,829 --> 00:49:35,920
your host jimmy church on the dark

1292
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:37,839
matter radio network stay with us we'll

1293
00:49:51,839 --> 00:49:57,109
1-800-916-66232

1294
00:50:01,030 --> 00:49:58,710
that's the number you need to call when

1295
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:01,040
you are seeking spiritual enlightenment

1296
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:03,119
and searching for your true purpose here

1297
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:04,480
on earth

1298
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:10,470
they provide psychic readings love

1299
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:13,440
spells reversal of spells custom spells

1300
00:50:19,589 --> 00:50:16,640
chakra balancing energy work divine

1301
00:50:22,030 --> 00:50:19,599
guidance is just one phone call away

1302
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:24,390
1-800-916-6232 for your free psychic

1303
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:25,359
reading

1304
00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:26,559
i did

1305
00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:32,069
you're listening to my main man jimmy

1306
00:50:36,390 --> 00:50:34,640
church on jimmychurchradio.com

1307
00:50:37,589 --> 00:50:36,400
my name is nick dominguez hi i'm rex

1308
00:50:40,309 --> 00:50:37,599
dominguez and i listen to

1309
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:40,319
jimmychurchradio.com

1310
00:50:45,630 --> 00:50:43,280
your preacher hey man this is toby

1311
00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:45,640
kebble you're listening to

1312
00:50:50,950 --> 00:50:48,319
jimmychurchradio.com don't hurt me jimmy

1313
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:50,960
i'm only little hey i'm adrian grenier

1314
00:50:57,349 --> 00:50:52,800
and this is ari gold we're the honey

1315
00:51:01,270 --> 00:50:59,670
hey i'm adrian grenier and i'm ari gold

1316
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:01,280
we're the honey brothers

1317
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:03,599
and you're listening to jimmy church the

1318
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:04,960
revolution

1319
00:51:06,549 --> 00:51:05,760
k

1320
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:06,559
j

1321
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:14,950
despite popular opinion

1322
00:51:46,549 --> 00:51:21,990
but listening to jimmy church will on

1323
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:48,549
okay everybody welcome back fade to

1324
00:51:51,430 --> 00:51:49,760
black

1325
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:51,440
i am your host jimmy church we're on the

1326
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:53,760
dark matter radio network and we are

1327
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:55,440
talking to

1328
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:58,640
philip mantle live from the uk and

1329
00:52:02,790 --> 00:52:01,280
philip are you still with us first off

1330
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:02,800
yeah i've not fallen asleep i'm still

1331
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:05,280
here you've got to love technology you

1332
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:08,079
know for us to be able to do this

1333
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:09,280
um

1334
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:10,960
this is one of the things

1335
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:13,599
technology uh that

1336
00:52:19,109 --> 00:52:17,119
allows a show like this to broadcast

1337
00:52:20,950 --> 00:52:19,119
without any restrictions from governing

1338
00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:20,960
bodies on our end you know i don't have

1339
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:23,200
anybody coming in the studio here

1340
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:24,800
some men in black guy or whatever

1341
00:52:29,670 --> 00:52:26,640
kicking down the door and i've had some

1342
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:29,680
some pretty intense guests on this show

1343
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:31,920
but there's nobody that can stop us from

1344
00:52:36,549 --> 00:52:33,040
speaking

1345
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:36,559
and and i just i just love it and the

1346
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:39,599
the freedom that that allows and and

1347
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:41,040
here you are you know you're over in the

1348
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:44,319
uk live you're a very important guest to

1349
00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:45,520
us but

1350
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:47,040
it you know we don't have to wait for

1351
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:49,680
you to fly over here or have some

1352
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:52,319
horrible phone connection or some nasty

1353
00:52:56,710 --> 00:52:54,640
recording you know this is this is

1354
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:56,720
technology is amazing in it

1355
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:58,240
it is absolutely i mean you could never

1356
00:53:01,750 --> 00:53:00,640
imagine this 20 years ago

1357
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:01,760
you know people would have laughed in

1358
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:03,520
your face

1359
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:04,960
when bill gates said everybody's going

1360
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:11,670
exactly talking about witchcraft

1361
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:13,520
but he's right he was right and it's

1362
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:15,359
amazing i mean i've got two grown-up

1363
00:53:19,109 --> 00:53:16,559
daughters and i tell them what it was

1364
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:19,119
like when i was a young boy and they

1365
00:53:23,829 --> 00:53:21,920
think it's the dark ages

1366
00:53:26,309 --> 00:53:23,839
well you know what's funny and that's a

1367
00:53:28,549 --> 00:53:26,319
that's a great point is i have i have

1368
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:28,559
two teenage daughters 18 and 19 years

1369
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:29,359
old

1370
00:53:33,270 --> 00:53:30,720
and

1371
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:33,280
the world has changed a lot for them in

1372
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:35,040
10 years

1373
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:36,960
and you if you think about what they

1374
00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:38,960
have grown up with now

1375
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:41,119
and it goes without saying because

1376
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:44,000
you myself people our age yes we do

1377
00:53:48,630 --> 00:53:47,280
remember uh before remote controls some

1378
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:48,640
of us remember black and white

1379
00:53:52,870 --> 00:53:51,200
television some of us remember two or

1380
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:52,880
three channels okay we take that as a

1381
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:55,200
given and we can sit around as old

1382
00:54:00,950 --> 00:53:57,280
old fogies and and reminisce about the

1383
00:54:03,430 --> 00:54:00,960
old days but the fact that my daughters

1384
00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:03,440
at the age of five and six

1385
00:54:09,270 --> 00:54:06,960
had cell phones now and and the reason

1386
00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:09,280
why they had cell phones not with not so

1387
00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:11,599
much that they wanted them

1388
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:15,040
but i needed them to have them i felt

1389
00:54:18,150 --> 00:54:16,240
safer

1390
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:18,160
that you know my my two little girls

1391
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:20,000
going to school that they had a cell

1392
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:21,920
phone and you know in their backpack

1393
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:24,480
just in case but that's where technology

1394
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:26,400
is you know i didn't have a tv in my

1395
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:28,640
bedroom until i was 16.

1396
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:30,960
they had flat screens at the age of like

1397
00:54:34,309 --> 00:54:32,640
two

1398
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:34,319
you had a bedroom

1399
00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:41,510
exactly

1400
00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:45,109
you know and i i just can't imagine

1401
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:47,839
the the amount of knowledge and

1402
00:54:51,670 --> 00:54:50,319
information that is available

1403
00:54:53,910 --> 00:54:51,680
um and and

1404
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:53,920
it's it's happening in front of us now

1405
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:56,240
and when i say i can't imagine i can't

1406
00:55:01,349 --> 00:54:58,319
because the way that you got your

1407
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:01,359
information and myself when when we were

1408
00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:04,559
kids was was reading maybe from the news

1409
00:55:09,750 --> 00:55:06,559
but it was from the library

1410
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:09,760
you know a little bit from tv but now

1411
00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:12,640
uh they are getting downloaded and

1412
00:55:19,109 --> 00:55:16,559
uploaded 24 hours a day

1413
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:19,119
yep i mean technology is a runaway train

1414
00:55:23,109 --> 00:55:21,280
i mean there's no stopping it uh where

1415
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:23,119
it will end up we'll have to wait and

1416
00:55:27,670 --> 00:55:25,839
see well and speaking of the technology

1417
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:27,680
let's let's talk about ray santilli

1418
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:29,280
because he's actually a part of this

1419
00:55:33,109 --> 00:55:30,640
conversation

1420
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:33,119
but uh before we get into ray

1421
00:55:38,390 --> 00:55:35,599
specifically um

1422
00:55:40,549 --> 00:55:38,400
last week on the show and you know this

1423
00:55:43,349 --> 00:55:40,559
is a live broadcast and so i take

1424
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:43,359
callers and you know i never know who's

1425
00:55:48,150 --> 00:55:44,559
going to call in

1426
00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:48,160
and mark center called in last week just

1427
00:55:51,190 --> 00:55:49,920
boom out of the blue hey jimmy what's

1428
00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:51,200
going on

1429
00:55:54,390 --> 00:55:53,520
enjoying the show you know that kind of

1430
00:55:57,109 --> 00:55:54,400
thing

1431
00:55:59,829 --> 00:55:57,119
and we

1432
00:56:02,309 --> 00:55:59,839
my conversations just go wherever

1433
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:02,319
they're gonna go and and for some reason

1434
00:56:07,829 --> 00:56:05,359
we fell into the alien autopsy film

1435
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:07,839
and the bitter taste that it's left in

1436
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:10,079
my you know i was one of those guys that

1437
00:56:13,589 --> 00:56:11,280
went out

1438
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:13,599
and actually uh

1439
00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:16,559
okay here in the valley where i live in

1440
00:56:20,950 --> 00:56:18,640
uh north of los angeles

1441
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:20,960
uh there was a tower records remember

1442
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:22,240
tower records

1443
00:56:26,710 --> 00:56:25,440
i do yes okay speaking of technology

1444
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:26,720
okay so

1445
00:56:31,589 --> 00:56:29,040
uh back when they existed they were

1446
00:56:34,069 --> 00:56:31,599
about a block from my house in in

1447
00:56:36,390 --> 00:56:34,079
sherman oaks and i heard about this

1448
00:56:39,510 --> 00:56:36,400
video coming out

1449
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:39,520
and i went down to tower records and

1450
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:42,319
mentioned it to these guys at uh

1451
00:56:46,150 --> 00:56:44,160
at the at the desk and they looked at me

1452
00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:46,160
like i was out of my mind but they

1453
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:49,359
looked it up and sure enough this video

1454
00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:51,839
was was available to order or was

1455
00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:53,119
getting released in the next couple of

1456
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:55,200
days so i fork over my

1457
00:56:59,829 --> 00:56:58,000
whatever it was at that time 69 or

1458
00:57:02,150 --> 00:56:59,839
whatever you paid for a videotape it was

1459
00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:02,160
a lot of money i remember but i ordered

1460
00:57:07,510 --> 00:57:04,640
it and it came a couple of days later i

1461
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:07,520
was one of those guys i could not wait

1462
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:10,480
for that videotape i was so excited and

1463
00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:13,359
i went home and watched that thing three

1464
00:57:18,230 --> 00:57:15,520
or four times the first night

1465
00:57:21,270 --> 00:57:18,240
invited people over to my house over the

1466
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:21,280
next few days to have autopsy video

1467
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:22,319
parties

1468
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:25,680
and i was one of those guys that was uh

1469
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:27,440
you know a full parts with his money

1470
00:57:35,349 --> 00:57:33,109
are you there yeah absolutely i mean

1471
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:35,359
it's a long story i mean i'd like to say

1472
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:37,920
hello to my my friend mark

1473
00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:40,640
um if he's listening this morning

1474
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:41,680
um

1475
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:43,359
you know mark was one of many who was

1476
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,520
intrigued and fascinated when that when

1477
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:47,680
the film hit the the television screens

1478
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:48,720
back in

1479
00:57:54,549 --> 00:57:51,760
in 1995 now is it's going back

1480
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:54,559
a a way bit but i was in contact with

1481
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:57,280
ray santilli back in 1993

1482
00:58:02,630 --> 00:58:00,240
um i was a director of the british ufo

1483
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:02,640
research association and we simply had a

1484
00:58:06,069 --> 00:58:04,559
letter from him i mean this is pre-email

1485
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:06,079
you know a letter

1486
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:08,400
and he just mentioned you know that

1487
00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:09,839
they might be interested in making a

1488
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:12,880
documentary so i you know i replied

1489
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:14,880
we spoke on the phone

1490
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:16,799
and then out of the blue he said but uh

1491
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:19,200
i should tell you i've got film

1492
00:58:23,349 --> 00:58:22,480
uh of the roswell crash

1493
00:58:26,230 --> 00:58:23,359
and

1494
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:26,240
obviously that piqued my interest right

1495
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:28,720
well the conversation went show me yes i

1496
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:31,280
can no i can't yes i can no account this

1497
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:33,680
went on for about a year and a half

1498
00:58:39,109 --> 00:58:36,640
uh i was in london um at one point i met

1499
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:39,119
him he told me this story about being in

1500
00:58:43,750 --> 00:58:41,280
the states looking for archive film of

1501
00:58:45,430 --> 00:58:43,760
elvis and so on and he bought a bit of

1502
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:45,440
film and then he met this old boy who

1503
00:58:50,230 --> 00:58:47,359
was a former military cameraman and he

1504
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:50,240
bought the film from him you know cash

1505
00:58:54,150 --> 00:58:51,839
no receipts

1506
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:54,160
that was it did you know

1507
00:58:59,430 --> 00:58:57,680
uh of santilli before this letter

1508
00:59:01,990 --> 00:58:59,440
not at all i mean he was a small

1509
00:59:03,510 --> 00:59:02,000
businessman in london his main business

1510
00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:03,520
was

1511
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:05,520
music right you know back catalogues

1512
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:07,920
this kind of thing you know it licensed

1513
00:59:11,670 --> 00:59:09,599
this and he'd re-license it to someone

1514
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:11,680
else and all this kind of stuff it's a

1515
00:59:15,829 --> 00:59:13,920
huge music fan

1516
00:59:18,150 --> 00:59:15,839
so anyway you know i

1517
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:18,160
forgot about it for for a while and then

1518
00:59:21,190 --> 00:59:19,440
out of the blue

1519
00:59:24,549 --> 00:59:21,200
i've got his business card i rang him up

1520
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:24,559
in in early 1995 and i said do you still

1521
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:26,640
claim to have this film and he said yes

1522
00:59:31,829 --> 00:59:29,599
i said show me and he said okay

1523
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:31,839
so i traveled to london went to his

1524
00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:34,559
office and hey presto there it was he

1525
00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:35,599
showed me

1526
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:37,280
a number of films

1527
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:38,559
some of which has been released on

1528
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:41,040
television some of which hasn't

1529
00:59:45,670 --> 00:59:42,720
and i was just thinking on my feet jimmy

1530
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:45,680
what do i do now of course at that point

1531
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:48,000
ray had no television interested he was

1532
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:50,240
just going to sell it you know on what

1533
00:59:55,109 --> 00:59:52,480
they called sell through on video

1534
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:55,119
you know there was no dvds then

1535
01:00:00,069 --> 00:59:57,599
so i was also a conference organizer for

1536
01:00:03,670 --> 01:00:00,079
buford i had a conference set up for

1537
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:03,680
later in 1995 in august and i just said

1538
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:05,440
will you show it at the conference and

1539
01:00:10,549 --> 01:00:07,040
he says if you would help me research it

1540
01:00:13,750 --> 01:00:10,559
phillip yes so we shook hands that day

1541
01:00:16,069 --> 01:00:13,760
um a few months later you know uh

1542
01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:16,079
the the story got out by accident i

1543
01:00:20,470 --> 01:00:18,240
spoke to a journalist friend of mine and

1544
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:20,480
mentioned it just as an off-the-cuff

1545
01:00:24,150 --> 01:00:22,079
remark

1546
01:00:25,750 --> 01:00:24,160
appearing in a little local newspaper in

1547
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:25,760
the north of england

1548
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:28,799
i got a phone call from a press agency

1549
01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:30,799
they asked me a few more questions and i

1550
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:33,280
didn't think much of it

1551
01:00:36,710 --> 01:00:35,680
and then hey presto my phone and fax

1552
01:00:38,950 --> 01:00:36,720
machine

1553
01:00:39,829 --> 01:00:38,960
were going off crazy from all around the

1554
01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:39,839
world

1555
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:41,200
you know

1556
01:00:46,789 --> 01:00:43,280
and then the story was out and the rest

1557
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:46,799
of the say is history okay i i need to

1558
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:48,880
back up uh i wanted you to finish your

1559
01:00:52,870 --> 01:00:51,119
thought there but let's let's back up

1560
01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:52,880
and then we're gonna pick up where i

1561
01:00:58,870 --> 01:00:55,680
just interrupted you so rudely you said

1562
01:01:00,950 --> 01:00:58,880
that you saw you he played you some some

1563
01:01:03,190 --> 01:01:00,960
footage in his office

1564
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:03,200
some of it was broadcast on television

1565
01:01:06,789 --> 01:01:04,559
some of it

1566
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:06,799
wasn't what did you see

1567
01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:09,680
well i had a number of visits over a you

1568
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:11,520
know a couple of months period first and

1569
01:01:14,470 --> 01:01:12,720
foremost

1570
01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:14,480
is a piece of film it runs for about

1571
01:01:17,510 --> 01:01:16,559
eight minutes black and white which all

1572
01:01:19,990 --> 01:01:17,520
of it is

1573
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:20,000
and it's called the tent footage

1574
01:01:25,030 --> 01:01:23,040
it's not been released on television

1575
01:01:27,430 --> 01:01:25,040
basically you see a

1576
01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:27,440
creature on a slab that's covered by a

1577
01:01:31,109 --> 01:01:29,440
sheet so you can see its head and its

1578
01:01:33,190 --> 01:01:31,119
hand and its feet

1579
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:33,200
so the far side of it are too many white

1580
01:01:36,950 --> 01:01:34,160
coats

1581
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:36,960
appear to have a scalpel or a knife in

1582
01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:38,400
their hands

1583
01:01:42,630 --> 01:01:40,960
and they seem to be handling tissue

1584
01:01:45,349 --> 01:01:42,640
occasionally there's a

1585
01:01:48,150 --> 01:01:45,359
dark figure walks in front of the camera

1586
01:01:50,069 --> 01:01:48,160
there's no audio with it

1587
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:50,079
there's a there's an old oil lamp hung

1588
01:01:54,870 --> 01:01:52,720
up centilly told the story that

1589
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:54,880
this was where there was a field tent

1590
01:01:58,630 --> 01:01:56,720
set up out in the desert and it was the

1591
01:02:01,109 --> 01:01:58,640
first recovery of the body before it was

1592
01:02:02,950 --> 01:02:01,119
shipped anywhere it's very poor quality

1593
01:02:05,430 --> 01:02:02,960
believe it or not jimmy actually even

1594
01:02:07,349 --> 01:02:05,440
gave me a copy there and then and i have

1595
01:02:09,670 --> 01:02:07,359
it here in my archive

1596
01:02:12,390 --> 01:02:09,680
so it's called the tent footage

1597
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:12,400
and then on subsequent visits

1598
01:02:17,670 --> 01:02:15,599
to santilli's office um saw two

1599
01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:17,680
autopsy films not one

1600
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:20,640
two same creature warner has its leg

1601
01:02:24,789 --> 01:02:22,880
damage and its wrist damage that's the

1602
01:02:28,309 --> 01:02:24,799
one that's all been seen on television

1603
01:02:30,549 --> 01:02:28,319
right the other one is totally intact as

1604
01:02:32,549 --> 01:02:30,559
a similar medical procedure is carried

1605
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:32,559
out but there are some some slight

1606
01:02:35,349 --> 01:02:33,760
differences

1607
01:02:38,069 --> 01:02:35,359
and then the fourth piece of film is

1608
01:02:39,510 --> 01:02:38,079
what santilli calls the debris film it's

1609
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:39,520
again it's like it looks like it's in a

1610
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:41,760
tent you see a man holding up bits of

1611
01:02:46,230 --> 01:02:43,680
wreckage bits of junk with symbols on

1612
01:02:49,190 --> 01:02:46,240
and so on so there are four separate

1613
01:02:50,630 --> 01:02:49,200
pieces of film

1614
01:02:52,630 --> 01:02:50,640
only two of them have been seen on

1615
01:02:54,789 --> 01:02:52,640
television

1616
01:02:57,109 --> 01:02:54,799
i'm forced to ask a couple of direct

1617
01:02:58,069 --> 01:02:57,119
questions here um

1618
01:03:00,150 --> 01:02:58,079
and

1619
01:03:02,230 --> 01:03:00,160
i just want your gut your gut feeling

1620
01:03:04,470 --> 01:03:02,240
when you saw the tent footage you saw

1621
01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:04,480
that first correct

1622
01:03:08,069 --> 01:03:06,480
yes okay so when you see this tent

1623
01:03:09,990 --> 01:03:08,079
footage

1624
01:03:12,230 --> 01:03:10,000
how did you come away from that did you

1625
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:12,240
think that what you were seeing was you

1626
01:03:14,230 --> 01:03:12,960
know

1627
01:03:15,670 --> 01:03:14,240
you're in great britain i was gonna say

1628
01:03:18,150 --> 01:03:15,680
the holy grail that wouldn't be right

1629
01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:18,160
but did you think that you were seeing

1630
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:21,039
that this is it did you fee or

1631
01:03:26,549 --> 01:03:22,880
did you have something inside of you

1632
01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:26,559
that was going you know uh this is bs i

1633
01:03:30,150 --> 01:03:28,240
mean how did you feel

1634
01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:30,160
no i mean i mean neither of those really

1635
01:03:33,029 --> 01:03:31,359
i mean bearing in mind i've been

1636
01:03:34,950 --> 01:03:33,039
speaking to santilli about this for

1637
01:03:37,029 --> 01:03:34,960
about a year and a half

1638
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:37,039
right so it was a relief that there was

1639
01:03:40,789 --> 01:03:38,960
actually some film there it wasn't just

1640
01:03:42,870 --> 01:03:40,799
a story anymore there was something

1641
01:03:46,069 --> 01:03:42,880
tangible

1642
01:03:48,150 --> 01:03:46,079
now my initial reaction was

1643
01:03:50,309 --> 01:03:48,160
what is the best approach here how can

1644
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:50,319
we best research this

1645
01:03:54,710 --> 01:03:52,319
and it was quite clear from speaking to

1646
01:03:56,710 --> 01:03:54,720
ray that he had his own agenda whatever

1647
01:03:58,789 --> 01:03:56,720
that may be and at that time there was

1648
01:04:01,910 --> 01:03:58,799
no television involved

1649
01:04:04,549 --> 01:04:01,920
and i thought the only way to find out

1650
01:04:06,630 --> 01:04:04,559
more about this film is to get it out

1651
01:04:08,150 --> 01:04:06,640
into the public domain

1652
01:04:09,270 --> 01:04:08,160
because if we get it into the public

1653
01:04:11,829 --> 01:04:09,280
domain

1654
01:04:14,309 --> 01:04:11,839
you know fred may come forward and say

1655
01:04:16,950 --> 01:04:14,319
hands up that's me i'm an actor right

1656
01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:16,960
right or you know bill may come up and

1657
01:04:21,910 --> 01:04:19,680
say that's a story my granddad told me

1658
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:21,920
about and i saw that bit of film back in

1659
01:04:26,309 --> 01:04:24,480
you know 1960 before he died or whatever

1660
01:04:28,630 --> 01:04:26,319
right so that was my i thought if we can

1661
01:04:31,349 --> 01:04:28,640
get this into the public's domain

1662
01:04:33,910 --> 01:04:31,359
then maybe maybe we'll find something

1663
01:04:36,150 --> 01:04:33,920
more about it hence me asking him to

1664
01:04:38,230 --> 01:04:36,160
show it at the conference i knew with it

1665
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:38,240
being associated with the conference it

1666
01:04:43,029 --> 01:04:40,079
would be released into the public domain

1667
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:43,039
well so i was just thinking on my feet

1668
01:04:46,309 --> 01:04:44,400
you know i didn't go home and plan

1669
01:04:49,589 --> 01:04:46,319
anything i just asked him down and then

1670
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:49,599
on the spot and he and he agreed so

1671
01:04:54,069 --> 01:04:51,839
and again if it shows at the conference

1672
01:04:56,230 --> 01:04:54,079
now you're directly now you're connected

1673
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:56,240
to santilli too now your reputation is

1674
01:05:02,470 --> 01:04:58,720
on the line did you so obviously you

1675
01:05:05,029 --> 01:05:02,480
felt confident enough that possibly this

1676
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:05,039
this footage was actually authentic

1677
01:05:10,390 --> 01:05:08,160
well what we did was but you know behind

1678
01:05:12,549 --> 01:05:10,400
the scenes take a fairly neutral stance

1679
01:05:15,109 --> 01:05:12,559
uh and we gave santilli every

1680
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:15,119
opportunity to prove his case right of

1681
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:18,000
course he never did of course but again

1682
01:05:21,270 --> 01:05:18,880
you know

1683
01:05:24,069 --> 01:05:21,280
it wasn't released on television until

1684
01:05:25,510 --> 01:05:24,079
after our conference our conference was

1685
01:05:27,190 --> 01:05:25,520
the first public screening of it

1686
01:05:28,630 --> 01:05:27,200
anywhere in the world right it was

1687
01:05:31,430 --> 01:05:28,640
released a couple of days later i

1688
01:05:33,190 --> 01:05:31,440
believe in you know on tv and it was

1689
01:05:35,270 --> 01:05:33,200
then and only then when it was shown

1690
01:05:37,910 --> 01:05:35,280
around the world that the various

1691
01:05:40,150 --> 01:05:37,920
experts in whatever field could come

1692
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:40,160
forward from the medical profession from

1693
01:05:44,870 --> 01:05:42,880
tv special effects from film analysts

1694
01:05:46,549 --> 01:05:44,880
and they did they came forward from all

1695
01:05:49,829 --> 01:05:46,559
around the world and by this time

1696
01:05:51,510 --> 01:05:49,839
anybody could access the film

1697
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:51,520
it till the cows come home

1698
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:54,240
so my my my plan such as it was it

1699
01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:56,880
wasn't a plan my my initial thoughts had

1700
01:06:02,390 --> 01:05:59,760
worked and i fully expected jimmy that's

1701
01:06:04,710 --> 01:06:02,400
within no time at all we'd have more

1702
01:06:05,829 --> 01:06:04,720
information not from santilli

1703
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:05,839
but from

1704
01:06:10,390 --> 01:06:08,240
people not connected to him at all that

1705
01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:10,400
would come forward and say well it's

1706
01:06:14,789 --> 01:06:12,319
this or it's that i have the evidence to

1707
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:14,799
support it but that didn't happen

1708
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:18,720
nobody but nobody came forward so we

1709
01:06:22,870 --> 01:06:20,799
were left trying to you know

1710
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:22,880
scramble as much information as we could

1711
01:06:27,430 --> 01:06:24,799
from the black and white images we

1712
01:06:29,109 --> 01:06:27,440
didn't have a piece of celluloid uh to

1713
01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:29,119
examine the bits that santilli gave us

1714
01:06:33,829 --> 01:06:31,680
were absolutely useless right um so all

1715
01:06:35,029 --> 01:06:33,839
we had like anyone else was the

1716
01:06:37,029 --> 01:06:35,039
videotape

1717
01:06:39,190 --> 01:06:37,039
uh and and it was like like you you

1718
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:39,200
watched it a few times i mean i

1719
01:06:41,990 --> 01:06:40,799
i you know there's no dialogue with it

1720
01:06:44,069 --> 01:06:42,000
but if they hadn't been i could have

1721
01:06:46,150 --> 01:06:44,079
repeated it backwards you know i looked

1722
01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:46,160
at it until i was blue in the face we

1723
01:06:49,349 --> 01:06:47,280
all did

1724
01:06:50,710 --> 01:06:49,359
no but there's nothing obvious on there

1725
01:06:51,670 --> 01:06:50,720
jimmy that would say it's a fake you

1726
01:06:53,190 --> 01:06:51,680
know the

1727
01:06:55,589 --> 01:06:53,200
the guys in white suits don't have a

1728
01:06:57,510 --> 01:06:55,599
digital watch on you know right

1729
01:06:59,589 --> 01:06:57,520
you know there's nothing that jumps out

1730
01:07:01,670 --> 01:06:59,599
of the screen and says dear the alarm

1731
01:07:02,470 --> 01:07:01,680
bells are ringing everything seemed to

1732
01:07:04,309 --> 01:07:02,480
fit

1733
01:07:06,470 --> 01:07:04,319
we even had medical professionals saying

1734
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:06,480
well it seems to be a medical procedure

1735
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:07,520
you know

1736
01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:11,280
sure that these are doctors but it seems

1737
01:07:14,230 --> 01:07:12,480
to be that

1738
01:07:15,750 --> 01:07:14,240
there is no blueprint for how you do an

1739
01:07:18,309 --> 01:07:15,760
autopsy there's certain things you would

1740
01:07:20,950 --> 01:07:18,319
do but you know right the rest

1741
01:07:21,829 --> 01:07:20,960
and they said it seems to fit so you

1742
01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:21,839
know

1743
01:07:26,150 --> 01:07:24,160
what we what i used to say to myself i

1744
01:07:28,230 --> 01:07:26,160
would shake the alien autopsy tree every

1745
01:07:30,390 --> 01:07:28,240
now and again to see what fell out of it

1746
01:07:32,069 --> 01:07:30,400
and it took a long time but eventually

1747
01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:32,079
you know the answers did fall out of the

1748
01:07:37,829 --> 01:07:34,319
tree and we got there in the end

1749
01:07:39,670 --> 01:07:37,839
what was santilli's attitude through all

1750
01:07:42,789 --> 01:07:39,680
of this in the beginning was there any

1751
01:07:45,750 --> 01:07:42,799
telltale signs that you know he was a

1752
01:07:47,829 --> 01:07:45,760
little bit of a shyster or was he

1753
01:07:49,589 --> 01:07:47,839
i mean you know if if you'd come across

1754
01:07:52,230 --> 01:07:49,599
race until he's selling used cars it

1755
01:07:55,109 --> 01:07:52,240
would not have surprised you he's also a

1756
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:55,119
very charming guy you know you know he's

1757
01:08:00,470 --> 01:07:57,920
a he's a nice guy to get along with you

1758
01:08:02,710 --> 01:08:00,480
know and um one of the things he did say

1759
01:08:05,349 --> 01:08:02,720
though however like but like i said

1760
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:05,359
his main business was music and music

1761
01:08:09,829 --> 01:08:07,200
memorabilia

1762
01:08:12,710 --> 01:08:09,839
i believe he has a huge collection of

1763
01:08:15,349 --> 01:08:12,720
elvis memorabilia for example okay and

1764
01:08:16,390 --> 01:08:15,359
uh on one one visit to it to his office

1765
01:08:17,829 --> 01:08:16,400
he had a

1766
01:08:19,269 --> 01:08:17,839
shoebox full of black and white

1767
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:19,279
photographs

1768
01:08:22,950 --> 01:08:21,359
absolutely going crazy over him was

1769
01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:22,960
drooling over them they were all

1770
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:24,880
unpublished photographs of the beatles

1771
01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:26,719
that he bought somewhere many years back

1772
01:08:29,590 --> 01:08:27,440
for

1773
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:29,600
you know 40 or 50 pound

1774
01:08:33,269 --> 01:08:32,080
but now of course the beatles anthology

1775
01:08:34,789 --> 01:08:33,279
was coming out and he'd actually

1776
01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:34,799
licensed two of them to the apple

1777
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:37,600
corporation for a nice fee and he said

1778
01:08:41,669 --> 01:08:39,440
imagine this phillip you know i release

1779
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:41,679
a piece of film that turns out to be

1780
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:44,400
fake what would it do to my reputation

1781
01:08:47,910 --> 01:08:45,920
you know and i thought well that's a

1782
01:08:50,709 --> 01:08:47,920
fair point you know you know it was a

1783
01:08:53,669 --> 01:08:50,719
fair point it was a lie because right

1784
01:08:57,189 --> 01:08:55,669
but he's a likable character you know

1785
01:08:58,789 --> 01:08:57,199
he's the kind of guy who could probably

1786
01:09:01,990 --> 01:08:58,799
steal your wallet and smile at you in

1787
01:09:04,789 --> 01:09:02,789
but

1788
01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:04,799
he's a very affable man and very easy to

1789
01:09:08,789 --> 01:09:06,960
get on with a very slippery character

1790
01:09:10,470 --> 01:09:08,799
and he's not stupid

1791
01:09:13,990 --> 01:09:10,480
we're talking to philip mantle about the

1792
01:09:16,950 --> 01:09:14,000
alien autopsy film and footage and uh

1793
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:16,960
the character race antilles and uh this

1794
01:09:20,630 --> 01:09:19,440
is fade to black okay so moving on

1795
01:09:25,510 --> 01:09:20,640
uh

1796
01:09:27,749 --> 01:09:25,520
excellent book probably the definitive

1797
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:27,759
book on this called the roswell alien

1798
01:09:31,829 --> 01:09:30,080
autopsy and we've got the links up on

1799
01:09:35,110 --> 01:09:31,839
the website if you want to go uh check

1800
01:09:38,870 --> 01:09:35,120
that out um okay so moving on

1801
01:09:40,149 --> 01:09:38,880
uh so what happened next the

1802
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:40,159
uh

1803
01:09:44,870 --> 01:09:43,040
did did he consult with you now this is

1804
01:09:46,870 --> 01:09:44,880
the thing that's fascinating for me and

1805
01:09:49,030 --> 01:09:46,880
thank you for talking about this uh this

1806
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:49,040
is something that is just

1807
01:09:52,630 --> 01:09:51,279
like nails on a chalkboard over the

1808
01:09:55,030 --> 01:09:52,640
years with me

1809
01:09:57,990 --> 01:09:55,040
every time i see the footage and they

1810
01:09:59,990 --> 01:09:58,000
refer to it all the time on television

1811
01:10:02,229 --> 01:10:00,000
when they talk about roswell they flick

1812
01:10:03,590 --> 01:10:02,239
and they treat it still to this day i

1813
01:10:05,910 --> 01:10:03,600
guess because they don't have anything

1814
01:10:07,350 --> 01:10:05,920
else that it's authentic footage

1815
01:10:08,229 --> 01:10:07,360
you know and so

1816
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:08,239
uh

1817
01:10:12,390 --> 01:10:11,120
but you were involved from day one now

1818
01:10:13,510 --> 01:10:12,400
when

1819
01:10:15,830 --> 01:10:13,520
uh

1820
01:10:18,310 --> 01:10:15,840
take me to one of the is coming out did

1821
01:10:21,189 --> 01:10:18,320
he consult with you or or talk with you

1822
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:21,199
about about how to proceed

1823
01:10:26,070 --> 01:10:23,520
not at all i mean you know i i didn't

1824
01:10:28,630 --> 01:10:26,080
get involved in any of ray's business

1825
01:10:30,630 --> 01:10:28,640
affairs okay you know i i was trying to

1826
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:30,640
be involved from a purely research point

1827
01:10:34,870 --> 01:10:33,199
of view right i mean i spoke to kodak

1828
01:10:36,630 --> 01:10:34,880
here in the uk they have

1829
01:10:38,550 --> 01:10:36,640
offices in in

1830
01:10:41,270 --> 01:10:38,560
himmel hempstead in england

1831
01:10:43,590 --> 01:10:41,280
they agreed to analyze any film close to

1832
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:43,600
them is also the british film institute

1833
01:10:47,669 --> 01:10:45,520
and again you know kodak got them on

1834
01:10:50,950 --> 01:10:47,679
board all free of charge they would you

1835
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:50,960
know so that was my role and ray was

1836
01:10:54,470 --> 01:10:53,040
also making his own little documentary

1837
01:10:55,830 --> 01:10:54,480
which is probably the video tape you

1838
01:10:57,990 --> 01:10:55,840
bought it wasn't just the footage there

1839
01:11:00,470 --> 01:10:58,000
was some bits and pieces on there you

1840
01:11:02,709 --> 01:11:00,480
know um i lined him up with people like

1841
01:11:05,669 --> 01:11:02,719
stanton freeman and various others he

1842
01:11:07,750 --> 01:11:05,679
had no idea who they were right yeah so

1843
01:11:08,870 --> 01:11:07,760
that that was that was that was my angle

1844
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:08,880
i was trying to look at it from a

1845
01:11:12,310 --> 01:11:11,120
research point of view he did tell me

1846
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:12,320
some of the the things that were

1847
01:11:16,950 --> 01:11:14,400
happening business-wise but not in any

1848
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:16,960
great detail um because

1849
01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:18,960
you know none of my business to be

1850
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:20,400
perfectly honest

1851
01:11:23,189 --> 01:11:21,840
and um

1852
01:11:24,550 --> 01:11:23,199
you know we knew about the television

1853
01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:24,560
broadcasts

1854
01:11:28,470 --> 01:11:26,560
i only later found out the amount of

1855
01:11:31,189 --> 01:11:28,480
money made from from various

1856
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:31,199
broadcasters around the world i mean

1857
01:11:35,110 --> 01:11:33,040
just by fox alone i think it was two

1858
01:11:37,430 --> 01:11:35,120
hundred thousand dollars plus a share of

1859
01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:37,440
the video sales of the documentary so

1860
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:39,120
i'll give you some idea of the type of

1861
01:11:41,189 --> 01:11:40,480
money that was involved

1862
01:11:43,270 --> 01:11:41,199
right

1863
01:11:45,189 --> 01:11:43,280
initially it was broadcast in over 20

1864
01:11:48,229 --> 01:11:45,199
different countries he sold it piecemeal

1865
01:11:49,830 --> 01:11:48,239
to them all so it wasn't one distribu

1866
01:11:52,470 --> 01:11:49,840
distribution deal

1867
01:11:54,070 --> 01:11:52,480
and then you know we just carried on

1868
01:11:56,709 --> 01:11:54,080
trying to find out as much information

1869
01:11:58,310 --> 01:11:56,719
as we could how did it start to unravel

1870
01:12:01,750 --> 01:11:58,320
form

1871
01:12:03,590 --> 01:12:01,760
well it started to unravel with a with a

1872
01:12:05,910 --> 01:12:03,600
an american special effects company

1873
01:12:07,830 --> 01:12:05,920
called the really dangerous company

1874
01:12:09,910 --> 01:12:07,840
now they got all of the the video like

1875
01:12:13,189 --> 01:12:09,920
everybody else and they looked at it

1876
01:12:15,590 --> 01:12:13,199
like only a special effects team could

1877
01:12:18,149 --> 01:12:15,600
you know and they slowed it down and

1878
01:12:20,390 --> 01:12:18,159
backwards and forwards and um they

1879
01:12:23,030 --> 01:12:20,400
noticed little anomalies in it for

1880
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:23,040
example when you when the the the head

1881
01:12:26,709 --> 01:12:25,440
is being sawed open the head actually

1882
01:12:29,430 --> 01:12:26,719
wobbles

1883
01:12:30,550 --> 01:12:29,440
so it's not connected via a spinal cord

1884
01:12:32,550 --> 01:12:30,560
oh

1885
01:12:34,310 --> 01:12:32,560
but you have to you know you could have

1886
01:12:36,390 --> 01:12:34,320
watched it forever and you would never

1887
01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:36,400
have noticed that so

1888
01:12:40,790 --> 01:12:38,480
they tell you where to go and watch it

1889
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:40,800
and then once they point it out to you

1890
01:12:44,070 --> 01:12:42,000
you think

1891
01:12:45,590 --> 01:12:44,080
hey there's something not right here and

1892
01:12:47,350 --> 01:12:45,600
there's various other little things now

1893
01:12:49,510 --> 01:12:47,360
they couldn't prove it you know this

1894
01:12:51,910 --> 01:12:49,520
wasn't definitive proof

1895
01:12:54,709 --> 01:12:51,920
but it was circumstantial evidence that

1896
01:12:57,510 --> 01:12:54,719
suggested that all was not right here

1897
01:12:58,790 --> 01:12:57,520
right also santilli started to change

1898
01:13:00,790 --> 01:12:58,800
his story

1899
01:13:03,910 --> 01:13:00,800
the tent footage was originally part of

1900
01:13:06,070 --> 01:13:03,920
the package to fox he withdrew it right

1901
01:13:07,750 --> 01:13:06,080
at the death because on there the two

1902
01:13:09,510 --> 01:13:07,760
men in white coats you can see their

1903
01:13:11,350 --> 01:13:09,520
face

1904
01:13:13,590 --> 01:13:11,360
ah

1905
01:13:15,189 --> 01:13:13,600
now he come up with some story saying

1906
01:13:17,110 --> 01:13:15,199
you know the cameraman couldn't be sure

1907
01:13:18,950 --> 01:13:17,120
about it anymore and all this lot but it

1908
01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:18,960
was withdrawn and there was a big

1909
01:13:22,149 --> 01:13:21,360
argument with fox about it they paid for

1910
01:13:24,630 --> 01:13:22,159
it

1911
01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:24,640
uh so his story started to change he

1912
01:13:29,910 --> 01:13:26,719
also um

1913
01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:29,920
did a french television chat show

1914
01:13:32,550 --> 01:13:31,520
and he's telling his story about looking

1915
01:13:34,229 --> 01:13:32,560
for this

1916
01:13:35,910 --> 01:13:34,239
you know elvis footage and he bought

1917
01:13:37,510 --> 01:13:35,920
some and somebody phoned in and said

1918
01:13:39,510 --> 01:13:37,520
well i met the guy you actually bought

1919
01:13:41,189 --> 01:13:39,520
the elvis footage from

1920
01:13:43,430 --> 01:13:41,199
you claim it's the same guy as your

1921
01:13:46,470 --> 01:13:43,440
cameraman well you know it's not so

1922
01:13:47,910 --> 01:13:46,480
again his story started to change

1923
01:13:49,750 --> 01:13:47,920
and you're thinking well it's something

1924
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:49,760
not right here you know

1925
01:13:52,950 --> 01:13:50,640
but

1926
01:13:55,189 --> 01:13:52,960
knowing ray as i had got to know him if

1927
01:13:56,550 --> 01:13:55,199
you confronted him in any way he would

1928
01:13:58,390 --> 01:13:56,560
just cut you out you you know he

1929
01:14:00,470 --> 01:13:58,400
wouldn't answer your phone calls or

1930
01:14:01,830 --> 01:14:00,480
anything like that so i took a a

1931
01:14:04,229 --> 01:14:01,840
different approach

1932
01:14:06,630 --> 01:14:04,239
i would say to him to his face

1933
01:14:08,310 --> 01:14:06,640
ray you know this film's real you know

1934
01:14:09,590 --> 01:14:08,320
prove it to all these doubters and these

1935
01:14:11,990 --> 01:14:09,600
people who are saying this down the

1936
01:14:13,590 --> 01:14:12,000
other but behind the scenes you know

1937
01:14:15,189 --> 01:14:13,600
we're like a duck on water were cam on

1938
01:14:17,110 --> 01:14:15,199
the surface but the legs were going like

1939
01:14:18,950 --> 01:14:17,120
mad right got the first hint that

1940
01:14:20,790 --> 01:14:18,960
something wasn't right but we weren't

1941
01:14:21,990 --> 01:14:20,800
gonna let let him know that we agreed

1942
01:14:24,709 --> 01:14:22,000
with it

1943
01:14:26,790 --> 01:14:24,719
and so that's the approach i took so in

1944
01:14:28,790 --> 01:14:26,800
public i seem to support him and i got a

1945
01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:28,800
lot of criticism for that and i'm

1946
01:14:32,229 --> 01:14:30,480
probably rightfully so

1947
01:14:34,149 --> 01:14:32,239
but beneath the surface i was trying to

1948
01:14:36,149 --> 01:14:34,159
dig and find out you know i've got the

1949
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:36,159
got the first clues here that you know

1950
01:14:39,830 --> 01:14:38,000
all wasn't right

1951
01:14:43,189 --> 01:14:39,840
and just carried on doing that right up

1952
01:14:45,830 --> 01:14:43,199
until the end and uh and then once i had

1953
01:14:47,350 --> 01:14:45,840
the answers then confronted him it's

1954
01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:47,360
very easy jimmy

1955
01:14:51,669 --> 01:14:49,440
for someone to say it's a fake

1956
01:14:53,189 --> 01:14:51,679
that's the easy way yeah you know you've

1957
01:14:55,430 --> 01:14:53,199
had people ringing your show i wouldn't

1958
01:14:58,950 --> 01:14:55,440
say it's a fake it's rubbish this is

1959
01:15:01,590 --> 01:14:58,960
that that's the easy way to prove it

1960
01:15:03,830 --> 01:15:01,600
is a much more difficult process and i

1961
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:03,840
was determined to prove

1962
01:15:07,830 --> 01:15:05,920
to get to the bottom of this damn film

1963
01:15:09,750 --> 01:15:07,840
no matter how long it took

1964
01:15:11,990 --> 01:15:09,760
uh and i'm you know i'm pleased i still

1965
01:15:13,510 --> 01:15:12,000
got it as did others mark was it was a

1966
01:15:15,590 --> 01:15:13,520
mark center

1967
01:15:17,830 --> 01:15:15,600
um was a great help in many many

1968
01:15:19,270 --> 01:15:17,840
different ways but you know mark's seen

1969
01:15:21,830 --> 01:15:19,280
him mad about it i think he'd punch

1970
01:15:23,590 --> 01:15:21,840
until if he ever you know yeah he came

1971
01:15:26,470 --> 01:15:23,600
face to face with him i don't understand

1972
01:15:29,110 --> 01:15:26,480
that yes i really do but i had to sort

1973
01:15:31,110 --> 01:15:29,120
of you know not go down that that alley

1974
01:15:33,030 --> 01:15:31,120
i had to remain calm

1975
01:15:35,189 --> 01:15:33,040
and try and figure out

1976
01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:35,199
where to go next bear in mind we got the

1977
01:15:39,510 --> 01:15:36,640
really dangerous company saying this is

1978
01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:39,520
a we believe this is a special effects

1979
01:15:42,630 --> 01:15:41,600
so we have a small film industry here in

1980
01:15:45,030 --> 01:15:42,640
the uk

1981
01:15:47,350 --> 01:15:45,040
i phoned special effects companies

1982
01:15:49,430 --> 01:15:47,360
and they said oh it looks a bit like you

1983
01:15:50,830 --> 01:15:49,440
know bill's work well i'd ring bill and

1984
01:15:53,110 --> 01:15:50,840
he'd say it looks a bit like harry's

1985
01:15:54,630 --> 01:15:53,120
work harry he said it looks a bit like

1986
01:15:56,950 --> 01:15:54,640
graham's work and i'd ring and i just

1987
01:15:58,950 --> 01:15:56,960
went round and round in circles and got

1988
01:15:59,830 --> 01:15:58,960
absolutely nowhere and i thought well

1989
01:16:02,229 --> 01:15:59,840
you know

1990
01:16:04,229 --> 01:16:02,239
it's only a small industry if it was

1991
01:16:05,990 --> 01:16:04,239
made by one of these guys here a special

1992
01:16:08,550 --> 01:16:06,000
effects guy i'm pretty sure they'd know

1993
01:16:09,910 --> 01:16:08,560
who he was so that went down a blind

1994
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:09,920
alley i was

1995
01:16:13,510 --> 01:16:11,440
i got a clue that it might have been

1996
01:16:15,189 --> 01:16:13,520
made in brazil i contacted people in

1997
01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:15,199
brazil they haven't got a clue what i

1998
01:16:19,030 --> 01:16:17,520
was talking about you know so every lead

1999
01:16:21,189 --> 01:16:19,040
i got i followed up and i didn't

2000
01:16:22,070 --> 01:16:21,199
necessarily tell santilli about any of

2001
01:16:26,149 --> 01:16:22,080
it

2002
01:16:28,229 --> 01:16:26,159
long time we got there in the end do you

2003
01:16:30,709 --> 01:16:28,239
think anybody uh

2004
01:16:32,149 --> 01:16:30,719
you know called up ray going hey man you

2005
01:16:33,430 --> 01:16:32,159
know i got a phone call today from

2006
01:16:35,590 --> 01:16:33,440
philip mantle

2007
01:16:37,590 --> 01:16:35,600
you know he's on to us

2008
01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:37,600
do you think that ever happened

2009
01:16:41,910 --> 01:16:39,120
yes i do

2010
01:16:43,590 --> 01:16:41,920
because the way the way we we made the

2011
01:16:47,350 --> 01:16:43,600
first inroads

2012
01:16:48,630 --> 01:16:47,360
um i got a i got an email from a guy

2013
01:16:50,709 --> 01:16:48,640
and he says

2014
01:16:53,830 --> 01:16:50,719
i know something about the the alien

2015
01:16:55,990 --> 01:16:53,840
autopsy though i know who made it

2016
01:16:57,270 --> 01:16:56,000
so eventually got a phone number for him

2017
01:16:58,390 --> 01:16:57,280
i rang him

2018
01:16:59,830 --> 01:16:58,400
and of course

2019
01:17:01,910 --> 01:16:59,840
it was clear as soon as i started

2020
01:17:03,270 --> 01:17:01,920
talking to him he wasn't talking about

2021
01:17:05,270 --> 01:17:03,280
the film that everybody had seen on

2022
01:17:06,550 --> 01:17:05,280
television he was talking about the tent

2023
01:17:09,189 --> 01:17:06,560
footage

2024
01:17:10,470 --> 01:17:09,199
which nobody had seen you know right so

2025
01:17:11,990 --> 01:17:10,480
i thought this guy knows what he's

2026
01:17:14,390 --> 01:17:12,000
talking about because no he hasn't seen

2027
01:17:15,830 --> 01:17:14,400
this on television and he says the guy

2028
01:17:17,910 --> 01:17:15,840
who made this

2029
01:17:19,830 --> 01:17:17,920
is called keith bateman

2030
01:17:21,750 --> 01:17:19,840
he gave me his name

2031
01:17:23,030 --> 01:17:21,760
and he said this was his company i used

2032
01:17:24,390 --> 01:17:23,040
to work for him and he said what

2033
01:17:27,510 --> 01:17:24,400
happened was

2034
01:17:28,830 --> 01:17:27,520
i went to do a bit of work for him

2035
01:17:32,390 --> 01:17:28,840
keith

2036
01:17:35,350 --> 01:17:32,400
made keep fit videos and karaoke videos

2037
01:17:37,510 --> 01:17:35,360
and this kind of thing small company

2038
01:17:39,590 --> 01:17:37,520
and from time to time there was licensed

2039
01:17:41,830 --> 01:17:39,600
music from santilla they knew each other

2040
01:17:43,510 --> 01:17:41,840
you know it was in his office one day

2041
01:17:46,070 --> 01:17:43,520
and the phone went

2042
01:17:48,390 --> 01:17:46,080
and uh it was race and tilly

2043
01:17:50,790 --> 01:17:48,400
so this chap said is that race and tilly

2044
01:17:53,030 --> 01:17:50,800
of the alien autopsy keith bateman fell

2045
01:17:55,830 --> 01:17:53,040
about laughing and said we made it

2046
01:17:57,430 --> 01:17:55,840
but it was the tent footage so i finally

2047
01:17:58,950 --> 01:17:57,440
tracked keith down on his original

2048
01:18:01,189 --> 01:17:58,960
company had closed but he moved on

2049
01:18:03,350 --> 01:18:01,199
elsewhere i found where he lived and

2050
01:18:04,070 --> 01:18:03,360
again it took me a long time to persuade

2051
01:18:06,790 --> 01:18:04,080
him

2052
01:18:08,709 --> 01:18:06,800
to to tell me the story and he tell he

2053
01:18:10,550 --> 01:18:08,719
told me the story

2054
01:18:12,390 --> 01:18:10,560
whereby he said we used to have little

2055
01:18:14,390 --> 01:18:12,400
brainstorming sessions

2056
01:18:15,990 --> 01:18:14,400
most of which was absolute nuts he said

2057
01:18:18,630 --> 01:18:16,000
we just wanted to make you know come up

2058
01:18:20,310 --> 01:18:18,640
with ideas to make some quick money

2059
01:18:21,510 --> 01:18:20,320
and he said somebody one day in the

2060
01:18:24,630 --> 01:18:21,520
office said wouldn't it be great if we

2061
01:18:27,270 --> 01:18:24,640
had some film of roswell

2062
01:18:28,229 --> 01:18:27,280
santilli said yeah be great so keith by

2063
01:18:30,950 --> 01:18:28,239
ding

2064
01:18:33,189 --> 01:18:30,960
he went away to a place in bedfordshire

2065
01:18:34,870 --> 01:18:33,199
into a barn on a farm

2066
01:18:36,229 --> 01:18:34,880
so that's where you see the tent footage

2067
01:18:38,709 --> 01:18:36,239
shot

2068
01:18:41,030 --> 01:18:38,719
um he put his son on a piece of wood

2069
01:18:43,030 --> 01:18:41,040
covered him in a white sheet he had a

2070
01:18:45,750 --> 01:18:43,040
polystyrene head

2071
01:18:47,590 --> 01:18:45,760
and he made some eyes and big black eyes

2072
01:18:49,830 --> 01:18:47,600
two of his colleagues who worked for him

2073
01:18:51,750 --> 01:18:49,840
are the doctors in the white suits and

2074
01:18:54,310 --> 01:18:51,760
the guy who walks with his back to the

2075
01:18:55,430 --> 01:18:54,320
camera is actually the farmer

2076
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:55,440
so

2077
01:18:58,310 --> 01:18:56,480
okay

2078
01:19:00,950 --> 01:18:58,320
whoa whoa whoa whoa that is almost too

2079
01:19:02,390 --> 01:19:00,960
much for me to wrap my head around that

2080
01:19:05,189 --> 01:19:02,400
quick okay

2081
01:19:08,070 --> 01:19:05,199
you've got to be kidding first off

2082
01:19:09,510 --> 01:19:08,080
uh i know you're not but let's back up

2083
01:19:11,030 --> 01:19:09,520
for a second

2084
01:19:13,189 --> 01:19:11,040
um

2085
01:19:16,470 --> 01:19:13,199
bateman uh

2086
01:19:18,709 --> 01:19:16,480
how did okay no how did you bait bateman

2087
01:19:20,550 --> 01:19:18,719
because it sounds like it sounds like he

2088
01:19:21,510 --> 01:19:20,560
just suddenly just went right down the

2089
01:19:24,630 --> 01:19:21,520
list

2090
01:19:26,310 --> 01:19:24,640
and and gave you all of the information

2091
01:19:27,910 --> 01:19:26,320
that you had been searching for you got

2092
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:27,920
it all at once

2093
01:19:31,830 --> 01:19:29,840
so take me back to that moment before

2094
01:19:34,550 --> 01:19:31,840
you you know i unders

2095
01:19:35,990 --> 01:19:34,560
hold on phillip for just a second um

2096
01:19:37,510 --> 01:19:36,000
i understand you want you know you go

2097
01:19:41,270 --> 01:19:37,520
abcd

2098
01:19:43,669 --> 01:19:41,280
you know his son the mask the the eyes

2099
01:19:46,070 --> 01:19:43,679
how where did they get the mask from

2100
01:19:47,590 --> 01:19:46,080
uh who were the other actors i know that

2101
01:19:49,750 --> 01:19:47,600
we're going to get to that in a second

2102
01:19:51,990 --> 01:19:49,760
too after the break but but how did he

2103
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:52,000
how did you bait him to give you

2104
01:19:58,390 --> 01:19:57,350
well yeah i mean

2105
01:20:00,870 --> 01:19:58,400
you know

2106
01:20:02,390 --> 01:20:00,880
again this is pre-emailed days or

2107
01:20:04,630 --> 01:20:02,400
certainly didn't have keith's email at

2108
01:20:05,830 --> 01:20:04,640
that time right so i wrote i wrote to

2109
01:20:09,910 --> 01:20:05,840
him

2110
01:20:12,709 --> 01:20:09,920
uh and he wouldn't cooperate at all

2111
01:20:14,790 --> 01:20:12,719
jimmy okay it was polite but he would

2112
01:20:17,669 --> 01:20:14,800
not cooperate

2113
01:20:18,550 --> 01:20:17,679
and i said well if you don't cooperate

2114
01:20:21,030 --> 01:20:18,560
you know

2115
01:20:21,990 --> 01:20:21,040
i know for i know for a fact you are the

2116
01:20:23,910 --> 01:20:22,000
guy

2117
01:20:28,229 --> 01:20:23,920
i know the story

2118
01:20:33,830 --> 01:20:30,390
to a number of people

2119
01:20:36,310 --> 01:20:33,840
and i did it it was a bit of a sly move

2120
01:20:37,430 --> 01:20:36,320
and they pestered the living daylights

2121
01:20:40,070 --> 01:20:37,440
out of him

2122
01:20:41,990 --> 01:20:40,080
now he's a nice guy but he's a real jack

2123
01:20:44,229 --> 01:20:42,000
the lad he's what we would call probably

2124
01:20:46,149 --> 01:20:44,239
call an arthur daley you know

2125
01:20:48,550 --> 01:20:46,159
he'll do anything to to make it a bit of

2126
01:20:50,790 --> 01:20:48,560
money but it dawned on him oh not a

2127
01:20:52,709 --> 01:20:50,800
minute there's a story here there may be

2128
01:20:54,390 --> 01:20:52,719
some money in it

2129
01:20:55,910 --> 01:20:54,400
and eventually

2130
01:20:58,870 --> 01:20:55,920
you know i tipped off

2131
01:21:00,550 --> 01:20:58,880
the newspapers right one of which spoke

2132
01:21:01,430 --> 01:21:00,560
to keith

2133
01:21:06,070 --> 01:21:01,440
and

2134
01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:06,080
told not all the story but enough of the

2135
01:21:11,669 --> 01:21:09,360
story you know santilli just denied it

2136
01:21:12,950 --> 01:21:11,679
but we were up and running we got the

2137
01:21:15,270 --> 01:21:12,960
fir the first

2138
01:21:17,510 --> 01:21:15,280
the first of the four films had gone you

2139
01:21:20,390 --> 01:21:17,520
know it was one down three to go

2140
01:21:22,149 --> 01:21:20,400
and um you know and and i mean i went

2141
01:21:24,070 --> 01:21:22,159
down and interviewed keith he lives

2142
01:21:26,310 --> 01:21:24,080
right down on the south coast

2143
01:21:28,390 --> 01:21:26,320
in person a lovely man

2144
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:28,400
uh he showed shoulders the the original

2145
01:21:32,709 --> 01:21:30,960
tent footage which was shot in color he

2146
01:21:34,550 --> 01:21:32,719
run it through his computer changed it

2147
01:21:36,550 --> 01:21:34,560
to black and white put some scratches on

2148
01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:36,560
it it was the kind of thing you expected

2149
01:21:40,390 --> 01:21:38,320
to see this wasn't graphic the head of

2150
01:21:42,630 --> 01:21:40,400
the alien was a was a polystyrene head

2151
01:21:45,030 --> 01:21:42,640
that you put wigs on you know all he did

2152
01:21:46,870 --> 01:21:45,040
was cut some eyes in it which he filled

2153
01:21:49,430 --> 01:21:46,880
the eyes in with orange peel

2154
01:21:50,630 --> 01:21:49,440
you know but in the in the dark and and

2155
01:21:52,950 --> 01:21:50,640
when he'd run it through the computer

2156
01:21:54,550 --> 01:21:52,960
you couldn't tell what it was you know i

2157
01:21:56,629 --> 01:21:54,560
also spoke to one of his colleagues that

2158
01:21:58,390 --> 01:21:56,639
worked with him who was in a wheelchair

2159
01:22:00,709 --> 01:21:58,400
and he said he wanted me to get up on

2160
01:22:03,590 --> 01:22:00,719
the table he said but i wasn't doing it

2161
01:22:05,110 --> 01:22:03,600
and not only that keith also told us

2162
01:22:07,990 --> 01:22:05,120
about some of the other stunts that

2163
01:22:09,669 --> 01:22:08,000
tried to do down the years so not only

2164
01:22:11,669 --> 01:22:09,679
did he have the expertise he had the

2165
01:22:14,709 --> 01:22:11,679
character to do it as well jimmy you

2166
01:22:16,790 --> 01:22:14,719
know so he made this film

2167
01:22:18,790 --> 01:22:16,800
took it to santilli and said here you go

2168
01:22:20,709 --> 01:22:18,800
santilla says that's rubbish

2169
01:22:22,390 --> 01:22:20,719
go away get me another get me a quote

2170
01:22:24,149 --> 01:22:22,400
for a better one

2171
01:22:25,990 --> 01:22:24,159
so that's what keith did he came back

2172
01:22:28,070 --> 01:22:26,000
with a figure he put a few thousand

2173
01:22:31,189 --> 01:22:28,080
pounds on it for himself it's until he

2174
01:22:32,629 --> 01:22:31,199
said no cost too much but there the seed

2175
01:22:34,629 --> 01:22:32,639
had been sewn

2176
01:22:37,270 --> 01:22:34,639
essentially kept a copy of the tent

2177
01:22:38,950 --> 01:22:37,280
footage on video but the idea had been

2178
01:22:40,950 --> 01:22:38,960
implanted if we really could have

2179
01:22:43,669 --> 01:22:40,960
something better than this there's money

2180
01:22:45,830 --> 01:22:43,679
to be made and that's how it all started

2181
01:22:47,030 --> 01:22:45,840
it was a bit of a prank a bit of a laugh

2182
01:22:49,510 --> 01:22:47,040
you know

2183
01:22:51,430 --> 01:22:49,520
but there you go hey presto and and

2184
01:22:53,510 --> 01:22:51,440
millions of dollars later look where we

2185
01:22:55,430 --> 01:22:53,520
are today okay let's this is another

2186
01:22:56,950 --> 01:22:55,440
good spot to take a break

2187
01:22:59,110 --> 01:22:56,960
and we're going to pick up when we were

2188
01:23:00,790 --> 01:22:59,120
talking to philip mano live from the uk

2189
01:23:01,910 --> 01:23:00,800
over in england what city are you in

2190
01:23:06,550 --> 01:23:01,920
again

2191
01:23:10,870 --> 01:23:06,560
i live in ponte frats in west yorkshire

2192
01:23:14,070 --> 01:23:10,880
i love the accent i'm the milk and honey

2193
01:23:15,830 --> 01:23:14,080
phillip mantle editor of ufo today

2194
01:23:17,270 --> 01:23:15,840
this is fade to black i am your host

2195
01:23:19,430 --> 01:23:17,280
jimmy church on the dark matter radio

2196
01:23:37,750 --> 01:23:19,440
network we'll be back right after this

2197
01:23:42,870 --> 01:23:40,229
way out here we listen to jimmy church

2198
01:23:48,149 --> 01:23:42,880
on the dark matter radio network

2199
01:24:04,870 --> 01:23:50,709
you're listening to fade to black on the

2200
01:24:10,229 --> 01:24:07,270
you're listening to jimmy church this is

2201
01:24:14,629 --> 01:24:10,239
revolution the revolution will not be

2202
01:24:57,990 --> 01:24:14,639
televised the revolution is on radio

2203
01:25:01,669 --> 01:24:59,510
all right fade to black i'm your host

2204
01:25:03,750 --> 01:25:01,679
jimmy church on the dark matter radio

2205
01:25:08,070 --> 01:25:03,760
network we are live in the uk with

2206
01:25:09,510 --> 01:25:08,080
philip mantle editor of ufo today

2207
01:25:11,510 --> 01:25:09,520
magazine

2208
01:25:12,470 --> 01:25:11,520
and uh he's still with us out there mr

2209
01:25:14,550 --> 01:25:12,480
mantle

2210
01:25:16,790 --> 01:25:14,560
hello indeed i'm still here

2211
01:25:20,790 --> 01:25:16,800
now uh we're talking about the alien

2212
01:25:22,790 --> 01:25:20,800
autopsy uh film and footage and how

2213
01:25:24,390 --> 01:25:22,800
how it was pulled off

2214
01:25:27,590 --> 01:25:24,400
and we're talking about race antillery

2215
01:25:29,189 --> 01:25:27,600
we've got a whole host of characters

2216
01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:29,199
that are about to come into the picture

2217
01:25:33,350 --> 01:25:31,120
that i'm going to talk about but

2218
01:25:37,189 --> 01:25:33,360
one of the things uh we were just

2219
01:25:40,149 --> 01:25:37,199
talking in the break a little bit uh

2220
01:25:41,830 --> 01:25:40,159
it has left such a bad taste in my mouth

2221
01:25:44,629 --> 01:25:41,840
that uh

2222
01:25:46,070 --> 01:25:44,639
this was done

2223
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:46,080
you know to me

2224
01:25:51,910 --> 01:25:49,520
for money with malice from the word go i

2225
01:25:54,070 --> 01:25:51,920
don't think that race antilles of course

2226
01:25:56,470 --> 01:25:54,080
i would love to have your opinion i

2227
01:25:58,149 --> 01:25:56,480
don't think he understood we all hope

2228
01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:58,159
something like this would just take off

2229
01:26:01,030 --> 01:25:59,440
and be great and

2230
01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:01,040
uh you know you punched your lottery

2231
01:26:06,229 --> 01:26:04,239
ticket but i don't think he had any idea

2232
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:06,239
how big it was about to get and what the

2233
01:26:11,030 --> 01:26:09,199
reaction would be not at all he didn't

2234
01:26:12,950 --> 01:26:11,040
have a clue i mean

2235
01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:12,960
people have talked about ray's marketing

2236
01:26:17,110 --> 01:26:14,800
plan well he didn't have one

2237
01:26:19,030 --> 01:26:17,120
you know bear in mind

2238
01:26:21,430 --> 01:26:19,040
he was originally just going to release

2239
01:26:23,590 --> 01:26:21,440
it on on videotape there was no

2240
01:26:25,510 --> 01:26:23,600
television involved there was no press

2241
01:26:27,510 --> 01:26:25,520
and it was just my loose tongue that

2242
01:26:30,070 --> 01:26:27,520
released it to the news media

2243
01:26:31,750 --> 01:26:30,080
and uh of course this was the height of

2244
01:26:33,990 --> 01:26:31,760
the x-files on television there were a

2245
01:26:37,189 --> 01:26:34,000
lot of interest in this subject so it

2246
01:26:39,270 --> 01:26:37,199
was perfect as far as tv and and and

2247
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:39,280
newspapers were concerned they didn't

2248
01:26:43,110 --> 01:26:40,960
really care whether it was real or not

2249
01:26:46,310 --> 01:26:43,120
there's something new to show

2250
01:26:48,550 --> 01:26:46,320
and um it was just by sheer chance that

2251
01:26:50,470 --> 01:26:48,560
this happened at that time

2252
01:26:52,790 --> 01:26:50,480
but santilli is not a mug he didn't

2253
01:26:55,430 --> 01:26:52,800
realize the the potential of it he got a

2254
01:26:57,669 --> 01:26:55,440
guy into work for him called chris carey

2255
01:26:59,590 --> 01:26:57,679
uh and chris handled the the contracts

2256
01:27:00,950 --> 01:26:59,600
and the business side of thing i mean i

2257
01:27:03,350 --> 01:27:00,960
you know i've been in ray's office when

2258
01:27:04,709 --> 01:27:03,360
it was just pandemonium i mean tv

2259
01:27:05,830 --> 01:27:04,719
clothes would just turn up at the door

2260
01:27:08,870 --> 01:27:05,840
unannounced

2261
01:27:11,270 --> 01:27:08,880
um and it wasn't planned so

2262
01:27:13,110 --> 01:27:11,280
ray many years later made a movie called

2263
01:27:14,790 --> 01:27:13,120
alien autopsy

2264
01:27:16,709 --> 01:27:14,800
no big shakes

2265
01:27:18,550 --> 01:27:16,719
but about the only thing that's accurate

2266
01:27:20,229 --> 01:27:18,560
in it is

2267
01:27:22,950 --> 01:27:20,239
that they didn't expect it to take off

2268
01:27:24,950 --> 01:27:22,960
like it did they had no idea of course

2269
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:24,960
he capitalized on it when he did but

2270
01:27:29,990 --> 01:27:27,120
they literally i mean nobody did none of

2271
01:27:31,669 --> 01:27:30,000
us did and uh i didn't think all these

2272
01:27:32,870 --> 01:27:31,679
years later i'd still be talking about

2273
01:27:34,950 --> 01:27:32,880
it i thought i'd be all over and done

2274
01:27:36,870 --> 01:27:34,960
with it in no time at all

2275
01:27:38,390 --> 01:27:36,880
but like i said he is a businessman and

2276
01:27:40,229 --> 01:27:38,400
he also thought well i'm out of my depth

2277
01:27:43,189 --> 01:27:40,239
here i'll bring someone in to deal with

2278
01:27:44,709 --> 01:27:43,199
this which was chris carey and and uh

2279
01:27:46,550 --> 01:27:44,719
you know he did a very good job for him

2280
01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:46,560
i've gotta i've gotta say

2281
01:27:50,149 --> 01:27:48,480
well the um

2282
01:27:53,189 --> 01:27:50,159
you they always say

2283
01:27:54,950 --> 01:27:53,199
uh especially with uh with detectives

2284
01:27:55,910 --> 01:27:54,960
you know you wanna get the answers chase

2285
01:27:59,990 --> 01:27:55,920
the money

2286
01:28:02,070 --> 01:28:00,000
your answers and that

2287
01:28:04,390 --> 01:28:02,080
that's what happened to you your first

2288
01:28:05,830 --> 01:28:04,400
break in all of this was

2289
01:28:08,149 --> 01:28:05,840
chasing down the guy that shot the

2290
01:28:10,790 --> 01:28:08,159
footage for money an opportunist which

2291
01:28:14,070 --> 01:28:10,800
is fine i don't have an issue with that

2292
01:28:16,709 --> 01:28:14,080
but that was your break in the case and

2293
01:28:19,830 --> 01:28:16,719
so how did um

2294
01:28:22,070 --> 01:28:19,840
how did the name start to

2295
01:28:24,229 --> 01:28:22,080
come forward that you know the alleged

2296
01:28:26,870 --> 01:28:24,239
cameraman and and

2297
01:28:29,590 --> 01:28:26,880
uh the other actors that were in

2298
01:28:31,030 --> 01:28:29,600
uh in the original footage

2299
01:28:33,590 --> 01:28:31,040
well again you know going back to the

2300
01:28:35,750 --> 01:28:33,600
fox broadcast alien optics autopsy fact

2301
01:28:39,030 --> 01:28:35,760
or fiction um

2302
01:28:41,910 --> 01:28:39,040
that was made by tv producer bob kivian

2303
01:28:43,590 --> 01:28:41,920
and some years down the line um bob was

2304
01:28:45,510 --> 01:28:43,600
doing another show i think it was called

2305
01:28:47,270 --> 01:28:45,520
world's greatest hoaxes right she was a

2306
01:28:49,590 --> 01:28:47,280
number of hoaxes

2307
01:28:51,350 --> 01:28:49,600
and um

2308
01:28:53,430 --> 01:28:51,360
he wanted to feature the alien autopsy

2309
01:28:55,430 --> 01:28:53,440
again obviously he couldn't go too far

2310
01:28:57,590 --> 01:28:55,440
into it so

2311
01:29:00,470 --> 01:28:57,600
i gave him the details of keith bateman

2312
01:29:01,830 --> 01:29:00,480
now although keith didn't appear on it

2313
01:29:04,470 --> 01:29:01,840
one of the

2314
01:29:06,629 --> 01:29:04,480
uh his former employees who's actually

2315
01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:06,639
in the tent footage did and went to the

2316
01:29:11,030 --> 01:29:09,360
united states and appeared on camera

2317
01:29:13,030 --> 01:29:11,040
and said that's me

2318
01:29:13,990 --> 01:29:13,040
you know and and it was you know that's

2319
01:29:16,149 --> 01:29:14,000
him

2320
01:29:18,149 --> 01:29:16,159
um so you know

2321
01:29:19,510 --> 01:29:18,159
in in in the eyes of certain people that

2322
01:29:21,590 --> 01:29:19,520
was the end of it but it wasn't it was

2323
01:29:23,430 --> 01:29:21,600
the beginning of the end right right

2324
01:29:24,470 --> 01:29:23,440
right way to go

2325
01:29:26,310 --> 01:29:24,480
so

2326
01:29:28,550 --> 01:29:26,320
cutting a long story short jimmy i wrote

2327
01:29:31,430 --> 01:29:28,560
an article sometime after that for a

2328
01:29:33,350 --> 01:29:31,440
magazine here and just again just

2329
01:29:35,270 --> 01:29:33,360
fortunately

2330
01:29:37,590 --> 01:29:35,280
it was the cover feature

2331
01:29:39,510 --> 01:29:37,600
so the alien autopsy was on the front

2332
01:29:41,110 --> 01:29:39,520
cover of this magazine which was on sale

2333
01:29:43,350 --> 01:29:41,120
in the newsstands

2334
01:29:44,870 --> 01:29:43,360
and a chap again emailed me and said i

2335
01:29:46,310 --> 01:29:44,880
didn't know there was any interest still

2336
01:29:48,709 --> 01:29:46,320
in this film

2337
01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:48,719
and i said yeah i said well i know the

2338
01:29:53,270 --> 01:29:51,120
man that made the dummies

2339
01:29:57,350 --> 01:29:53,280
what yeah

2340
01:29:59,270 --> 01:29:57,360
is there any interest i said of course

2341
01:30:00,149 --> 01:29:59,280
you know i spoke to this chap on the

2342
01:30:02,229 --> 01:30:00,159
phone

2343
01:30:03,990 --> 01:30:02,239
he says it's a friend of mine he made

2344
01:30:05,830 --> 01:30:04,000
the dummies

2345
01:30:07,110 --> 01:30:05,840
so i met him

2346
01:30:08,950 --> 01:30:07,120
and

2347
01:30:09,830 --> 01:30:08,960
he gave me his name but only his first

2348
01:30:12,629 --> 01:30:09,840
name

2349
01:30:14,629 --> 01:30:12,639
this is a guy called john

2350
01:30:17,270 --> 01:30:14,639
but what he did do he gave me enough

2351
01:30:19,830 --> 01:30:17,280
information not straight away

2352
01:30:22,470 --> 01:30:19,840
to find out who this john was

2353
01:30:24,550 --> 01:30:22,480
what did we did was it any of the guys

2354
01:30:26,629 --> 01:30:24,560
the special effects people that you had

2355
01:30:28,229 --> 01:30:26,639
called earlier was it one of the i was

2356
01:30:30,709 --> 01:30:28,239
just coming to that one okay okay

2357
01:30:32,830 --> 01:30:30,719
looking for special effects guys

2358
01:30:37,350 --> 01:30:32,840
and john humphries was a

2359
01:30:39,830 --> 01:30:37,360
sculptor whose work on occasion had

2360
01:30:42,470 --> 01:30:39,840
gone into the film and television world

2361
01:30:44,470 --> 01:30:42,480
but perseu was not a special effects guy

2362
01:30:46,550 --> 01:30:44,480
he's a sculpture

2363
01:30:50,310 --> 01:30:46,560
and i got his name and i contacted him

2364
01:30:53,110 --> 01:30:50,320
and he wouldn't play ball of course

2365
01:30:55,189 --> 01:30:53,120
however i i again i've kept in touch

2366
01:30:57,270 --> 01:30:55,199
with the tv producer bob kiviet down the

2367
01:30:59,510 --> 01:30:57,280
ears and still in touch

2368
01:31:01,270 --> 01:30:59,520
i tipped bob off

2369
01:31:03,350 --> 01:31:01,280
and um

2370
01:31:06,149 --> 01:31:03,360
bob spoke to this guy i spoke to his

2371
01:31:09,189 --> 01:31:06,159
agent he confirmed the story

2372
01:31:10,950 --> 01:31:09,199
we were about to to break the story when

2373
01:31:13,110 --> 01:31:10,960
uh this chapter sculptor called john

2374
01:31:15,270 --> 01:31:13,120
humphries was signed up to work on the

2375
01:31:16,950 --> 01:31:15,280
alien autopsy movie

2376
01:31:19,350 --> 01:31:16,960
so he went quiet

2377
01:31:21,910 --> 01:31:19,360
but one thing he did say

2378
01:31:23,030 --> 01:31:21,920
was it's not me you should be speaking

2379
01:31:25,430 --> 01:31:23,040
to

2380
01:31:26,790 --> 01:31:25,440
it's spiros

2381
01:31:28,709 --> 01:31:26,800
and we're thinking

2382
01:31:30,070 --> 01:31:28,719
oh spiros

2383
01:31:33,189 --> 01:31:30,080
you know it's a name that had never

2384
01:31:34,950 --> 01:31:33,199
cropped up anywhere before i mean

2385
01:31:36,709 --> 01:31:34,960
never

2386
01:31:38,470 --> 01:31:36,719
and so we were looking i mean it's not a

2387
01:31:41,669 --> 01:31:38,480
popular name by any means but it's it's

2388
01:31:44,310 --> 01:31:41,679
just one name it meant nothing oh spiro

2389
01:31:47,030 --> 01:31:44,320
spiros molaris right yeah but we only

2390
01:31:48,870 --> 01:31:47,040
had spiros oh okay go ahead i'm sorry to

2391
01:31:51,110 --> 01:31:48,880
interrupt so with it with a colleague of

2392
01:31:52,950 --> 01:31:51,120
mine we made a little cheap and a real

2393
01:31:54,149 --> 01:31:52,960
homemade dvd

2394
01:31:55,910 --> 01:31:54,159
that had

2395
01:31:57,750 --> 01:31:55,920
the interview with keith bateman on it

2396
01:31:58,790 --> 01:31:57,760
and one or two others and we put it

2397
01:32:01,110 --> 01:31:58,800
online

2398
01:32:02,709 --> 01:32:01,120
cheap and cheerful jimmy

2399
01:32:04,629 --> 01:32:02,719
lo and behold

2400
01:32:07,830 --> 01:32:04,639
who contacts us

2401
01:32:10,390 --> 01:32:07,840
spiros molaris as soon as he said spiros

2402
01:32:12,470 --> 01:32:10,400
and new because it's not a common name

2403
01:32:14,149 --> 01:32:12,480
it's not bill fred you know phillip

2404
01:32:15,990 --> 01:32:14,159
jimmy

2405
01:32:16,950 --> 01:32:16,000
i mean with a multicultural country i

2406
01:32:20,950 --> 01:32:16,960
know but

2407
01:32:26,070 --> 01:32:24,390
and he told me the whole story i mean a

2408
01:32:27,590 --> 01:32:26,080
lot i couldn't i mean you can't i mean

2409
01:32:29,830 --> 01:32:27,600
he's a great guys but you can't shut him

2410
01:32:31,830 --> 01:32:29,840
up once he starts talking anyway

2411
01:32:33,430 --> 01:32:31,840
and i recorded it i thought just in case

2412
01:32:35,270 --> 01:32:33,440
i didn't tell him that

2413
01:32:36,950 --> 01:32:35,280
but i thought just in case i get the

2414
01:32:39,510 --> 01:32:36,960
only one opportunity to speak to this

2415
01:32:41,110 --> 01:32:39,520
fella i'm gonna record it and i did and

2416
01:32:43,590 --> 01:32:41,120
i spoke to him again and this time i

2417
01:32:45,750 --> 01:32:43,600
told him and we went over things

2418
01:32:47,669 --> 01:32:45,760
what he told us was

2419
01:32:50,229 --> 01:32:47,679
again he met santilli

2420
01:32:52,390 --> 01:32:50,239
by accident you know he used to have his

2421
01:32:53,510 --> 01:32:52,400
own film crew for hire

2422
01:32:55,669 --> 01:32:53,520
and he met

2423
01:32:57,910 --> 01:32:55,679
he met santilla a thing called mip come

2424
01:32:59,990 --> 01:32:57,920
out in france which is like a tv

2425
01:33:01,910 --> 01:33:00,000
uh convention

2426
01:33:03,590 --> 01:33:01,920
and until he told him this story about

2427
01:33:05,270 --> 01:33:03,600
this tent footage and he'd lost a load

2428
01:33:07,430 --> 01:33:05,280
of money on it so

2429
01:33:09,110 --> 01:33:07,440
spiros went to see him

2430
01:33:10,550 --> 01:33:09,120
back in london

2431
01:33:13,990 --> 01:33:10,560
and he showed him the tent footage and

2432
01:33:16,390 --> 01:33:14,000
spiro says hey it's a fake it's that's

2433
01:33:19,350 --> 01:33:16,400
never been shot on 16 millimeters it's

2434
01:33:22,790 --> 01:33:19,360
35 millimeters and then

2435
01:33:24,470 --> 01:33:22,800
as santilla told him this silly story

2436
01:33:26,149 --> 01:33:24,480
so he said i'll tell you what i will

2437
01:33:28,870 --> 01:33:26,159
make you you're really an autopsy film

2438
01:33:31,270 --> 01:33:28,880
oh you i i have to that's that's a great

2439
01:33:32,790 --> 01:33:31,280
point that you just brought up

2440
01:33:34,550 --> 01:33:32,800
so he knew

2441
01:33:35,750 --> 01:33:34,560
by looking at the footage it was 35

2442
01:33:39,350 --> 01:33:35,760
millimeter and it would have been

2443
01:33:41,510 --> 01:33:39,360
impossible to shoot in 1947 with 35

2444
01:33:43,110 --> 01:33:41,520
millimeter yeah he could tell just by

2445
01:33:44,709 --> 01:33:43,120
looking at it and of course that piece

2446
01:33:47,270 --> 01:33:44,719
of film has never been shown on

2447
01:33:50,310 --> 01:33:47,280
television oh that is i did not know

2448
01:33:52,870 --> 01:33:50,320
this that that's an amen okay okay so so

2449
01:33:54,790 --> 01:33:52,880
spuros was the best friend of john

2450
01:33:57,189 --> 01:33:54,800
humphreys the sculpture

2451
01:33:58,950 --> 01:33:57,199
aspenos again he's a very lively guy he

2452
01:34:01,350 --> 01:33:58,960
has a mixed background he trained as a

2453
01:34:02,830 --> 01:34:01,360
mechanic as a young boy he's also a

2454
01:34:05,990 --> 01:34:02,840
magician he's a member of the magic

2455
01:34:07,910 --> 01:34:06,000
circle and he you know he said i spent

2456
01:34:09,910 --> 01:34:07,920
more time he started off filming you

2457
01:34:11,669 --> 01:34:09,920
know little things himself eventually

2458
01:34:13,510 --> 01:34:11,679
had his own film crew and make pop

2459
01:34:15,669 --> 01:34:13,520
videos and a whole host of things right

2460
01:34:17,590 --> 01:34:15,679
so he's multi-talented

2461
01:34:19,669 --> 01:34:17,600
and he says i'll make it

2462
01:34:21,430 --> 01:34:19,679
they got the money put up by a chap

2463
01:34:23,830 --> 01:34:21,440
called volker spielberg who was a

2464
01:34:24,950 --> 01:34:23,840
business associate of santillis in

2465
01:34:26,310 --> 01:34:24,960
germany

2466
01:34:28,149 --> 01:34:26,320
there was a rumor going around that

2467
01:34:30,149 --> 01:34:28,159
spielberg was behind it well it wasn't

2468
01:34:33,110 --> 01:34:30,159
steven spielberg it was a volker

2469
01:34:35,830 --> 01:34:33,120
spielberg you know now uh when you first

2470
01:34:39,590 --> 01:34:35,840
uh uh recorded your interview with uh

2471
01:34:41,110 --> 01:34:39,600
spiros uh melares how much time has now

2472
01:34:43,110 --> 01:34:41,120
passed

2473
01:34:45,750 --> 01:34:43,120
you know from your original meetings

2474
01:34:47,030 --> 01:34:45,760
with ray santilli before the you know uh

2475
01:34:48,790 --> 01:34:47,040
when you saw the

2476
01:34:51,350 --> 01:34:48,800
two two now

2477
01:34:53,750 --> 01:34:51,360
10 or 11 years 10 or 11 years okay yeah

2478
01:34:55,189 --> 01:34:53,760
that is a long investigation you must

2479
01:34:57,350 --> 01:34:55,199
have really been

2480
01:34:59,110 --> 01:34:57,360
as soon as he started talking everything

2481
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:59,120
just seemed to fall into place jim we've

2482
01:35:02,790 --> 01:35:00,400
got snippets

2483
01:35:05,270 --> 01:35:02,800
you know that fit into the puzzle

2484
01:35:06,629 --> 01:35:05,280
and he literally you know he had a

2485
01:35:08,950 --> 01:35:06,639
girlfriend

2486
01:35:11,510 --> 01:35:08,960
um she hired the props they were used to

2487
01:35:13,510 --> 01:35:11,520
hiring props for the pop videos so she

2488
01:35:15,030 --> 01:35:13,520
hired all the props she did the medical

2489
01:35:17,510 --> 01:35:15,040
research

2490
01:35:19,590 --> 01:35:17,520
and um they actually the set they built

2491
01:35:22,310 --> 01:35:19,600
they built in spiro's sister's apartment

2492
01:35:23,910 --> 01:35:22,320
in london which was by coincidence being

2493
01:35:26,149 --> 01:35:23,920
renovated at the time so it didn't

2494
01:35:28,870 --> 01:35:26,159
matter how much mess they made you know

2495
01:35:31,110 --> 01:35:28,880
you're saying the the the operating room

2496
01:35:32,790 --> 01:35:31,120
was shot in an apartment

2497
01:35:35,189 --> 01:35:32,800
okay okay all right

2498
01:35:38,870 --> 01:35:35,199
i want to come back to that continue

2499
01:35:41,350 --> 01:35:38,880
and but spiros had a different attitude

2500
01:35:42,709 --> 01:35:41,360
he wasn't doing this for money the money

2501
01:35:44,629 --> 01:35:42,719
that they they

2502
01:35:46,470 --> 01:35:44,639
they were paid for the job he paid his

2503
01:35:48,790 --> 01:35:46,480
crew we paid john humphreys to make the

2504
01:35:50,310 --> 01:35:48,800
dummies he says we didn't make any money

2505
01:35:51,270 --> 01:35:50,320
out of it says to me this this was a

2506
01:35:53,590 --> 01:35:51,280
prank

2507
01:35:55,510 --> 01:35:53,600
he said i got fed up doing you know the

2508
01:35:57,830 --> 01:35:55,520
pop videos and the little things we

2509
01:35:59,510 --> 01:35:57,840
wanted to make the next step up

2510
01:36:02,390 --> 01:35:59,520
we thought if we could pull off a stunt

2511
01:36:03,990 --> 01:36:02,400
like this and fool people we could then

2512
01:36:06,790 --> 01:36:04,000
hold our hands up and say look how good

2513
01:36:08,950 --> 01:36:06,800
we are come and hire us you know

2514
01:36:10,790 --> 01:36:08,960
that was his reason behind it so he went

2515
01:36:12,950 --> 01:36:10,800
away and made it

2516
01:36:15,270 --> 01:36:12,960
when they viewed the first autopsy film

2517
01:36:18,149 --> 01:36:15,280
back then made a mistake

2518
01:36:19,430 --> 01:36:18,159
his girlfriend said if you show that it

2519
01:36:22,310 --> 01:36:19,440
will show up as a mistake it was a it

2520
01:36:24,229 --> 01:36:22,320
was a mistake with the medical procedure

2521
01:36:26,870 --> 01:36:24,239
and he said son till he was in you know

2522
01:36:28,310 --> 01:36:26,880
apoplectic we've spent all the money

2523
01:36:30,390 --> 01:36:28,320
so spuros

2524
01:36:32,550 --> 01:36:30,400
put up the money to make the second

2525
01:36:34,870 --> 01:36:32,560
alien autopsy film which is the one

2526
01:36:36,470 --> 01:36:34,880
you've seen on television and on video

2527
01:36:38,870 --> 01:36:36,480
and even then when it came out of the

2528
01:36:40,550 --> 01:36:38,880
mold it was there'd been an air pocket

2529
01:36:42,470 --> 01:36:40,560
in it which is why you get the hole in

2530
01:36:43,189 --> 01:36:42,480
the leg

2531
01:36:44,950 --> 01:36:43,199
so

2532
01:36:47,270 --> 01:36:44,960
you know the improvise they went to the

2533
01:36:49,430 --> 01:36:47,280
butchers and got a bone from an animal

2534
01:36:51,030 --> 01:36:49,440
put that in the knee and got a blow

2535
01:36:53,830 --> 01:36:51,040
torch and burnt the leg and make it look

2536
01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:53,840
like a wound you know they improvised

2537
01:36:58,870 --> 01:36:56,080
they then shot it and filmed it

2538
01:37:01,109 --> 01:36:58,880
and and hey presto that's the one you've

2539
01:37:03,109 --> 01:37:01,119
seen so it was actually that was the

2540
01:37:05,350 --> 01:37:03,119
second one that was filmed the first one

2541
01:37:06,950 --> 01:37:05,360
was was wrong but there's also little

2542
01:37:09,030 --> 01:37:06,960
anecdotes in between he said we've done

2543
01:37:11,109 --> 01:37:09,040
the first one wrong so he says this

2544
01:37:12,950 --> 01:37:11,119
creature is left on a slab with all the

2545
01:37:15,750 --> 01:37:12,960
giblets you know and the blood

2546
01:37:18,310 --> 01:37:15,760
everywhere right we went home this is

2547
01:37:20,390 --> 01:37:18,320
the next day we'd actually been burgled

2548
01:37:21,990 --> 01:37:20,400
you know the door had been broken in

2549
01:37:24,149 --> 01:37:22,000
he says can you imagine the look on the

2550
01:37:26,229 --> 01:37:24,159
face of the when he opened the door and

2551
01:37:27,109 --> 01:37:26,239
saw that

2552
01:37:28,390 --> 01:37:27,119
you know

2553
01:37:29,830 --> 01:37:28,400
he said at first we thought oh we've

2554
01:37:31,109 --> 01:37:29,840
been rumbled and i thought we can't

2555
01:37:32,950 --> 01:37:31,119
because it's a burglar he's not going to

2556
01:37:34,709 --> 01:37:32,960
hand himself in and say i found a dead

2557
01:37:36,390 --> 01:37:34,719
alien on a slab you know that's

2558
01:37:38,149 --> 01:37:36,400
hilarious

2559
01:37:41,669 --> 01:37:38,159
so there was things like that and not

2560
01:37:43,189 --> 01:37:41,679
only that spiros has um pieces of film

2561
01:37:44,629 --> 01:37:43,199
which we you would probably call the

2562
01:37:45,990 --> 01:37:44,639
stuff that ends up on the cutting room

2563
01:37:47,590 --> 01:37:46,000
floor right

2564
01:37:48,550 --> 01:37:47,600
he's showing us little snippets of that

2565
01:37:50,870 --> 01:37:48,560
as well

2566
01:37:52,709 --> 01:37:50,880
uh he also kept a diary at the time i've

2567
01:37:55,510 --> 01:37:52,719
seen his diary so everything was noted

2568
01:37:58,070 --> 01:37:55,520
in it and he made up the story about you

2569
01:37:59,590 --> 01:37:58,080
know the cameraman's and how it was shot

2570
01:38:01,669 --> 01:37:59,600
and when it was filmed and he had a

2571
01:38:03,910 --> 01:38:01,679
storyboard he's quite a good artist he

2572
01:38:05,910 --> 01:38:03,920
kept the original storyboard which i've

2573
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:05,920
seen you know and he's kept it all in

2574
01:38:11,510 --> 01:38:08,880
file um he was going to do even more he

2575
01:38:14,070 --> 01:38:11,520
was going to do a crashed flying saucer

2576
01:38:16,390 --> 01:38:14,080
and he had a huge file of american

2577
01:38:18,950 --> 01:38:16,400
trucks that he'd got he even still had

2578
01:38:20,550 --> 01:38:18,960
his original faxes from kodak

2579
01:38:22,790 --> 01:38:20,560
you know looking at the edge codes on

2580
01:38:26,149 --> 01:38:22,800
the film to say what was for and all

2581
01:38:27,750 --> 01:38:26,159
this is there and he then went on and he

2582
01:38:29,830 --> 01:38:27,760
spoke to volker spielberg on the

2583
01:38:31,510 --> 01:38:29,840
telephone

2584
01:38:33,590 --> 01:38:31,520
and asked him if he could record it he

2585
01:38:35,830 --> 01:38:33,600
said yes you know there is volca

2586
01:38:37,350 --> 01:38:35,840
spielberg admitting it was a fake you

2587
01:38:39,910 --> 01:38:37,360
know and couldn't understand why

2588
01:38:41,990 --> 01:38:39,920
santilli won't admit to it now

2589
01:38:43,830 --> 01:38:42,000
and lots more of information so it all

2590
01:38:46,390 --> 01:38:43,840
fell into place

2591
01:38:49,189 --> 01:38:46,400
of course santilli denied it all

2592
01:38:50,629 --> 01:38:49,199
um spiros spoke in public once a

2593
01:38:51,830 --> 01:38:50,639
conference i did

2594
01:38:53,430 --> 01:38:51,840
but you know one of the questions is

2595
01:38:55,270 --> 01:38:53,440
being asked is why didn't you speak up

2596
01:38:57,510 --> 01:38:55,280
at the time spiros he said well look you

2597
01:38:59,990 --> 01:38:57,520
know this was just a stunt i gave it to

2598
01:39:01,750 --> 01:39:00,000
santilli it was released

2599
01:39:03,590 --> 01:39:01,760
i didn't know it made any money i'm not

2600
01:39:04,470 --> 01:39:03,600
interested in ufos

2601
01:39:07,270 --> 01:39:04,480
you know

2602
01:39:09,590 --> 01:39:07,280
and it was only when the alien autopsy

2603
01:39:11,510 --> 01:39:09,600
film was going to be made the movie

2604
01:39:13,669 --> 01:39:11,520
that

2605
01:39:15,910 --> 01:39:13,679
got suspicious something happened and he

2606
01:39:17,189 --> 01:39:15,920
thought i'm going to look into this and

2607
01:39:19,350 --> 01:39:17,199
i mean we're talking a lot of years

2608
01:39:20,870 --> 01:39:19,360
afterwards and then he suddenly realized

2609
01:39:22,310 --> 01:39:20,880
you know what had happened he said i

2610
01:39:24,550 --> 01:39:22,320
went on and got on with the rest of my

2611
01:39:25,350 --> 01:39:24,560
life doing my job my work he set up his

2612
01:39:27,830 --> 01:39:25,360
own

2613
01:39:29,910 --> 01:39:27,840
tv studio it was busy i mean it was not

2614
01:39:30,709 --> 01:39:29,920
part of his life he was not interested

2615
01:39:32,870 --> 01:39:30,719
right

2616
01:39:34,470 --> 01:39:32,880
he he wasn't interested in the interest

2617
01:39:36,229 --> 01:39:34,480
in the genre so

2618
01:39:38,550 --> 01:39:36,239
he probably never heard anything about

2619
01:39:40,310 --> 01:39:38,560
it except for on a professional level of

2620
01:39:41,990 --> 01:39:40,320
making the new movie right because he

2621
01:39:44,870 --> 01:39:42,000
was doing his research that he found the

2622
01:39:46,550 --> 01:39:44,880
little cheapy dvd that we made right and

2623
01:39:48,310 --> 01:39:46,560
saw name all over the internet and

2624
01:39:49,270 --> 01:39:48,320
thought i better contact this this job

2625
01:39:50,709 --> 01:39:49,280
you know

2626
01:39:52,790 --> 01:39:50,719
and uh

2627
01:39:54,709 --> 01:39:52,800
and that and that's it and he's he's

2628
01:39:56,790 --> 01:39:54,719
continued collecting information ever

2629
01:39:58,550 --> 01:39:56,800
since slowly but surely it's not the top

2630
01:40:01,430 --> 01:39:58,560
of his agenda jimmy you know he's a

2631
01:40:04,709 --> 01:40:01,440
businessman yeah he lives in in in

2632
01:40:08,149 --> 01:40:04,719
london uh and you know the the alien

2633
01:40:09,590 --> 01:40:08,159
autopsy film is way down on his list uh

2634
01:40:11,189 --> 01:40:09,600
other things at the top of the list but

2635
01:40:13,270 --> 01:40:11,199
he has gone on the you know on the

2636
01:40:14,790 --> 01:40:13,280
public record spoken in public and it

2637
01:40:17,189 --> 01:40:14,800
was quite a brave thing to do he stood

2638
01:40:19,430 --> 01:40:17,199
up at a ufo conference you know and said

2639
01:40:21,030 --> 01:40:19,440
i'm the guy who made this thing and

2640
01:40:22,550 --> 01:40:21,040
there was there was a number of people

2641
01:40:24,310 --> 01:40:22,560
in the audience who were not best

2642
01:40:26,390 --> 01:40:24,320
pleased i can assure you no i would have

2643
01:40:30,149 --> 01:40:26,400
been one of them right right

2644
01:40:32,629 --> 01:40:30,159
were you able to uh with spiros did you

2645
01:40:34,470 --> 01:40:32,639
handle the original film you know the

2646
01:40:35,990 --> 01:40:34,480
snippets around did he

2647
01:40:37,990 --> 01:40:36,000
was this stuff that you had checked out

2648
01:40:39,830 --> 01:40:38,000
originally he actually did shoot it in

2649
01:40:42,070 --> 01:40:39,840
16 millimeter

2650
01:40:43,430 --> 01:40:42,080
and he handed the film to santilli it's

2651
01:40:46,229 --> 01:40:43,440
until he had the film then then

2652
01:40:48,149 --> 01:40:46,239
transferred to video oh i got you but

2653
01:40:51,510 --> 01:40:48,159
you know he has the original camera

2654
01:40:53,350 --> 01:40:51,520
there that he shot it on and um

2655
01:40:55,189 --> 01:40:53,360
so but i saw all the other material he

2656
01:40:57,430 --> 01:40:55,199
has you know i've seen some of the

2657
01:40:59,030 --> 01:40:57,440
outtakes which are on our own video we

2658
01:41:00,550 --> 01:40:59,040
did some of the editing on the on the

2659
01:41:03,270 --> 01:41:00,560
final video edit

2660
01:41:04,950 --> 01:41:03,280
not the cellulite in it on the video and

2661
01:41:06,550 --> 01:41:04,960
even the even the guy in the in the

2662
01:41:07,910 --> 01:41:06,560
debris film was a guy in military

2663
01:41:10,470 --> 01:41:07,920
uniform you don't see his face but

2664
01:41:12,790 --> 01:41:10,480
that's his brother you know

2665
01:41:15,830 --> 01:41:12,800
the the white suits that the the doctors

2666
01:41:17,990 --> 01:41:15,840
wear his mum made them for him you know

2667
01:41:20,310 --> 01:41:18,000
have you named your touchy table have

2668
01:41:21,430 --> 01:41:20,320
you been able to identify everybody in

2669
01:41:22,870 --> 01:41:21,440
the footage

2670
01:41:25,030 --> 01:41:22,880
at this point well he's told me all

2671
01:41:26,470 --> 01:41:25,040
their names bar one yes okay and the

2672
01:41:28,629 --> 01:41:26,480
only one he won't tell me is his

2673
01:41:29,669 --> 01:41:28,639
girlfriend this is because she now has a

2674
01:41:31,189 --> 01:41:29,679
quite a

2675
01:41:33,030 --> 01:41:31,199
you know an important job within

2676
01:41:34,550 --> 01:41:33,040
politics so

2677
01:41:36,149 --> 01:41:34,560
you know for obvious reasons he's kept

2678
01:41:38,390 --> 01:41:36,159
her quiet but he's told me all the other

2679
01:41:39,910 --> 01:41:38,400
names yes now i i want to jump back

2680
01:41:41,669 --> 01:41:39,920
really quick i've wrote a couple of

2681
01:41:43,270 --> 01:41:41,679
notes down uh uh

2682
01:41:46,709 --> 01:41:43,280
this is the beauty of having just a

2683
01:41:48,390 --> 01:41:46,719
conversation it goes where it goes but

2684
01:41:50,310 --> 01:41:48,400
we forget some of the things that we

2685
01:41:52,390 --> 01:41:50,320
discovered one of them i want to go back

2686
01:41:53,910 --> 01:41:52,400
to the operating room that was shot that

2687
01:41:56,070 --> 01:41:53,920
you know that footage

2688
01:41:59,750 --> 01:41:56,080
in the apartment

2689
01:42:01,669 --> 01:41:59,760
the analysis that santilli went ahead

2690
01:42:03,350 --> 01:42:01,679
and provided from prof you know about

2691
01:42:05,669 --> 01:42:03,360
all the objects in the room and that

2692
01:42:06,709 --> 01:42:05,679
they were period correct

2693
01:42:10,950 --> 01:42:06,719
how did they

2694
01:42:12,870 --> 01:42:10,960
you look back at the footage now do you

2695
01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:12,880
go all right well you know it couldn't

2696
01:42:15,189 --> 01:42:13,679
have been

2697
01:42:17,270 --> 01:42:15,199
you know it's easy because we know it's

2698
01:42:19,109 --> 01:42:17,280
a hoax but how did they pull that off on

2699
01:42:20,390 --> 01:42:19,119
such a limited budget

2700
01:42:21,750 --> 01:42:20,400
you know if you're looking if you look

2701
01:42:24,709 --> 01:42:21,760
at it jimmy there aren't not many

2702
01:42:27,830 --> 01:42:24,719
artifacts in the film right

2703
01:42:29,590 --> 01:42:27,840
you have a table and a creature a clock

2704
01:42:30,709 --> 01:42:29,600
you know you've got a clock on the wall

2705
01:42:34,149 --> 01:42:30,719
phone

2706
01:42:35,830 --> 01:42:34,159
right

2707
01:42:37,830 --> 01:42:35,840
you know that's about it if you look

2708
01:42:39,510 --> 01:42:37,840
carefully you can even see the the

2709
01:42:42,629 --> 01:42:39,520
electric socket

2710
01:42:45,669 --> 01:42:42,639
for the for the wall clock and again

2711
01:42:47,510 --> 01:42:45,679
spiros had been used to hiring props so

2712
01:42:49,510 --> 01:42:47,520
they did their research

2713
01:42:50,709 --> 01:42:49,520
now he knew he found out that for

2714
01:42:53,669 --> 01:42:50,719
example

2715
01:42:55,669 --> 01:42:53,679
um some people went yeah gotcha the

2716
01:42:56,629 --> 01:42:55,679
phone that's out on the wall has a curly

2717
01:43:01,830 --> 01:42:56,639
flex

2718
01:43:04,390 --> 01:43:01,840
but they did but it was a it's something

2719
01:43:06,390 --> 01:43:04,400
you had to pay a little bit extra for

2720
01:43:08,390 --> 01:43:06,400
but he purposely did that he says i put

2721
01:43:11,189 --> 01:43:08,400
a number of little red what looked like

2722
01:43:12,870 --> 01:43:11,199
red herrings in and you think i've got

2723
01:43:13,750 --> 01:43:12,880
you but then when you actually checked

2724
01:43:15,590 --> 01:43:13,760
up

2725
01:43:17,990 --> 01:43:15,600
you were disappointed because they did

2726
01:43:19,669 --> 01:43:18,000
have them same with the wall socket

2727
01:43:22,070 --> 01:43:19,679
although it was a fake socket the real

2728
01:43:25,030 --> 01:43:22,080
socket was behind it he got a wall

2729
01:43:27,590 --> 01:43:25,040
socket from 1947 and you know fixed it

2730
01:43:29,430 --> 01:43:27,600
to his set and he said with the medical

2731
01:43:32,870 --> 01:43:29,440
instruments we couldn't get them from a

2732
01:43:34,310 --> 01:43:32,880
museum because they had to look new

2733
01:43:36,070 --> 01:43:34,320
so we couldn't have things that looked

2734
01:43:38,310 --> 01:43:36,080
old and rusty and cheap they had to be

2735
01:43:40,629 --> 01:43:38,320
new right what he also did when he hired

2736
01:43:42,229 --> 01:43:40,639
the props from different places and he

2737
01:43:43,590 --> 01:43:42,239
also had them delivered to a different

2738
01:43:45,270 --> 01:43:43,600
address

2739
01:43:47,030 --> 01:43:45,280
so that there was no paper trail that

2740
01:43:48,470 --> 01:43:47,040
all went to the same person

2741
01:43:50,390 --> 01:43:48,480
so you know the medical instruments were

2742
01:43:53,990 --> 01:43:50,400
delivered to one address the clock to

2743
01:43:56,870 --> 01:43:54,000
another you know and so on so it didn't

2744
01:43:59,430 --> 01:43:56,880
all end up his house or his girlfriend's

2745
01:44:01,350 --> 01:43:59,440
house so he spread it all over the place

2746
01:44:04,149 --> 01:44:01,360
which was a very clever thing to do if

2747
01:44:07,590 --> 01:44:04,159
you think about it and he said even when

2748
01:44:09,669 --> 01:44:07,600
santilli released um some film labels

2749
01:44:11,990 --> 01:44:09,679
he claimed you know the film is in a can

2750
01:44:13,830 --> 01:44:12,000
the can is in a box the box was sealed

2751
01:44:15,990 --> 01:44:13,840
by a sticker over the top

2752
01:44:18,070 --> 01:44:16,000
you know and there's there's handwritten

2753
01:44:20,390 --> 01:44:18,080
notes on this this film he even

2754
01:44:22,550 --> 01:44:20,400
researched what kind of film kodak used

2755
01:44:25,109 --> 01:44:22,560
in that time and he had all the faxes

2756
01:44:26,629 --> 01:44:25,119
from kodak you know they were all there

2757
01:44:28,629 --> 01:44:26,639
and the handwritten labels were actually

2758
01:44:29,910 --> 01:44:28,639
done by spiros's mother

2759
01:44:32,790 --> 01:44:29,920
because she had old-fashioned

2760
01:44:37,350 --> 01:44:34,629
well one of the one of the things that

2761
01:44:39,270 --> 01:44:37,360
um i want you to comment on on this

2762
01:44:40,790 --> 01:44:39,280
really quick uh that mark center had

2763
01:44:41,910 --> 01:44:40,800
pointed out

2764
01:44:44,390 --> 01:44:41,920
uh

2765
01:44:47,830 --> 01:44:44,400
the way that

2766
01:44:52,310 --> 01:44:47,840
santilli presents the film stock with

2767
01:44:54,310 --> 01:44:52,320
kodak he never sent kodak film stock to

2768
01:44:56,629 --> 01:44:54,320
be analyzed he only gave them batch

2769
01:44:57,990 --> 01:44:56,639
numbers is that correct that's correct

2770
01:45:00,070 --> 01:44:58,000
yeah he

2771
01:45:01,669 --> 01:45:00,080
i mean again you know they bought some

2772
01:45:03,350 --> 01:45:01,679
old film on

2773
01:45:05,030 --> 01:45:03,360
literally off the market that was from

2774
01:45:07,109 --> 01:45:05,040
1947

2775
01:45:09,270 --> 01:45:07,119
but it was of a baseball match

2776
01:45:12,950 --> 01:45:09,280
you know and it has the edge codes on it

2777
01:45:16,550 --> 01:45:12,960
for 1947. so they asked kodak what are

2778
01:45:18,870 --> 01:45:16,560
these and they said it's 27 47 67 we we

2779
01:45:20,950 --> 01:45:18,880
recycled the coats you know

2780
01:45:25,030 --> 01:45:20,960
so you know and that was it

2781
01:45:27,350 --> 01:45:25,040
but um spiros to one film analyst did an

2782
01:45:30,870 --> 01:45:27,360
old magician's trick he cut the edge

2783
01:45:32,229 --> 01:45:30,880
code off the baseball film spliced it

2784
01:45:35,270 --> 01:45:32,239
onto his

2785
01:45:37,990 --> 01:45:35,280
modern 16 millimeter film right right

2786
01:45:39,910 --> 01:45:38,000
when he showed the guy this he just held

2787
01:45:41,109 --> 01:45:39,920
his fingers over where the splice was

2788
01:45:43,109 --> 01:45:41,119
it's an old magician's trick it's

2789
01:45:44,950 --> 01:45:43,119
misdirection

2790
01:45:46,870 --> 01:45:44,960
to the film analyst it looked like a

2791
01:45:48,950 --> 01:45:46,880
continuous piece of film but spiroz's

2792
01:45:50,870 --> 01:45:48,960
fingers went over where the splice was

2793
01:45:53,510 --> 01:45:50,880
so the edge codes were on the alien

2794
01:45:55,510 --> 01:45:53,520
autopsy film hey presto you know that's

2795
01:45:57,750 --> 01:45:55,520
where these magic tricks came in a

2796
01:46:00,390 --> 01:45:57,760
simple thing to do and

2797
01:46:02,790 --> 01:46:00,400
and the the the genius of this and i'm

2798
01:46:04,950 --> 01:46:02,800
looking at this two

2799
01:46:07,189 --> 01:46:04,960
from two or three angles but they all

2800
01:46:09,910 --> 01:46:07,199
just like converge

2801
01:46:11,750 --> 01:46:09,920
into genius i'm i'm giving ray santilli

2802
01:46:13,750 --> 01:46:11,760
way too much credit or maybe not enough

2803
01:46:16,149 --> 01:46:13,760
to be honest but you've got the

2804
01:46:18,149 --> 01:46:16,159
simplicity of the operating room you

2805
01:46:21,350 --> 01:46:18,159
know there's not a bunch of stuff in

2806
01:46:23,669 --> 01:46:21,360
there it's actually minimalistic but

2807
01:46:26,629 --> 01:46:23,679
everything is period correct

2808
01:46:27,910 --> 01:46:26,639
and so you have that and then you have

2809
01:46:28,790 --> 01:46:27,920
the fact that

2810
01:46:31,590 --> 01:46:28,800
rey

2811
01:46:33,030 --> 01:46:31,600
presents uh

2812
01:46:34,310 --> 01:46:33,040
what's the word i want to say the

2813
01:46:37,189 --> 01:46:34,320
illusion

2814
01:46:39,990 --> 01:46:37,199
that kodak actually

2815
01:46:42,950 --> 01:46:40,000
checked out the film they didn't but he

2816
01:46:45,510 --> 01:46:42,960
he makes you feel that they did all they

2817
01:46:47,669 --> 01:46:45,520
did was confirm that batch numbers yeah

2818
01:46:49,430 --> 01:46:47,679
i mean when i got to know santilli

2819
01:46:51,109 --> 01:46:49,440
initially i thought if this film is a

2820
01:46:54,229 --> 01:46:51,119
fake

2821
01:46:55,669 --> 01:46:54,239
i don't believe santilli's made it and i

2822
01:46:57,350 --> 01:46:55,679
wasn't disrespecting him but if you

2823
01:46:58,790 --> 01:46:57,360
looked around his office he never made

2824
01:47:00,870 --> 01:46:58,800
anything

2825
01:47:03,510 --> 01:47:00,880
you know it was just his nature he would

2826
01:47:05,750 --> 01:47:03,520
license something buy something you know

2827
01:47:09,510 --> 01:47:05,760
never actually made it himself jimmy so

2828
01:47:11,910 --> 01:47:09,520
i i suspected maybe maybe

2829
01:47:13,910 --> 01:47:11,920
could santillia bought this film

2830
01:47:16,070 --> 01:47:13,920
and you know realized it was it was

2831
01:47:17,590 --> 01:47:16,080
hokey but really didn't care you know

2832
01:47:19,270 --> 01:47:17,600
was going to sell it anyway somebody had

2833
01:47:21,830 --> 01:47:19,280
sold it to him

2834
01:47:23,910 --> 01:47:21,840
but you know my thoughts were correct he

2835
01:47:25,430 --> 01:47:23,920
didn't make it the real genius behind it

2836
01:47:27,430 --> 01:47:25,440
was spiros

2837
01:47:30,310 --> 01:47:27,440
santilli was just the front man you know

2838
01:47:33,830 --> 01:47:30,320
and and he was the sales agent

2839
01:47:34,830 --> 01:47:33,840
and he did a remarkable job at it and uh

2840
01:47:36,950 --> 01:47:34,840
you know

2841
01:47:38,149 --> 01:47:36,960
um there are a number of other things

2842
01:47:41,030 --> 01:47:38,159
that happened

2843
01:47:43,669 --> 01:47:41,040
again purely unrelated but important and

2844
01:47:45,750 --> 01:47:43,679
coincidental for example a number of

2845
01:47:48,390 --> 01:47:45,760
people said there is no way you could

2846
01:47:51,189 --> 01:47:48,400
get top secret film of anything you just

2847
01:47:53,910 --> 01:47:51,199
couldn't get it and then we have a thing

2848
01:47:56,229 --> 01:47:53,920
in in the uk called car boot sales right

2849
01:47:58,310 --> 01:47:56,239
you can go and sell your unwanted gifts

2850
01:48:01,270 --> 01:47:58,320
somebody bought some video tapes at a

2851
01:48:03,430 --> 01:48:01,280
car boat sale for a few pounds you know

2852
01:48:06,310 --> 01:48:03,440
for pennies they put the videotape in

2853
01:48:09,669 --> 01:48:06,320
the player what's on it was top secret

2854
01:48:10,870 --> 01:48:09,679
training of this sas

2855
01:48:12,950 --> 01:48:10,880
so

2856
01:48:13,750 --> 01:48:12,960
they're saying you can't find right

2857
01:48:15,109 --> 01:48:13,760
right

2858
01:48:17,430 --> 01:48:15,119
film of anything

2859
01:48:19,910 --> 01:48:17,440
and you can buy top secret film of the

2860
01:48:22,470 --> 01:48:19,920
training of the sas you know on a cowboy

2861
01:48:24,550 --> 01:48:22,480
sale so little things like that helped

2862
01:48:26,310 --> 01:48:24,560
and he could offer that as an example

2863
01:48:27,350 --> 01:48:26,320
you see yeah it's not hit headlines you

2864
01:48:29,109 --> 01:48:27,360
know

2865
01:48:30,950 --> 01:48:29,119
again i'm not trying to give him too

2866
01:48:33,109 --> 01:48:30,960
much credit but maybe we're not giving

2867
01:48:35,590 --> 01:48:33,119
him enough you know the way that

2868
01:48:37,990 --> 01:48:35,600
everything just happened to line up

2869
01:48:40,310 --> 01:48:38,000
and pass you know it passed the muster

2870
01:48:42,870 --> 01:48:40,320
test for quite a while there's a lot of

2871
01:48:45,270 --> 01:48:42,880
people involved in trying to debunk this

2872
01:48:47,109 --> 01:48:45,280
and then oh i want to uh

2873
01:48:49,109 --> 01:48:47,119
i'm gonna stand the same thought the way

2874
01:48:50,149 --> 01:48:49,119
that he pulls in

2875
01:48:55,590 --> 01:48:50,159
uh

2876
01:48:59,590 --> 01:48:55,600
and gets you know him to go on film and

2877
01:49:00,470 --> 01:48:59,600
uh uh uh mr wecht you know he gets him

2878
01:49:01,270 --> 01:49:00,480
on

2879
01:49:04,629 --> 01:49:01,280
to

2880
01:49:07,350 --> 01:49:04,639
these are guys uh here in the states i

2881
01:49:10,550 --> 01:49:07,360
can't speak for great britain but stan

2882
01:49:11,750 --> 01:49:10,560
winston is is at the top of the top or

2883
01:49:13,750 --> 01:49:11,760
was i'm sorry

2884
01:49:15,830 --> 01:49:13,760
um at the top at the top of his

2885
01:49:19,189 --> 01:49:15,840
profession of special effects somebody

2886
01:49:23,270 --> 01:49:19,199
that uh if you ask his opinion it's the

2887
01:49:26,790 --> 01:49:23,280
last word his answer is the last word

2888
01:49:30,229 --> 01:49:26,800
and the same thing with uh uh mr wecht

2889
01:49:32,950 --> 01:49:30,239
and so to get them on for me when when

2890
01:49:35,189 --> 01:49:32,960
the documentary came out and the video

2891
01:49:37,830 --> 01:49:35,199
came out and i see these guys

2892
01:49:39,430 --> 01:49:37,840
uh at the end i'm like you know stan's

2893
01:49:41,750 --> 01:49:39,440
not going to go on weck's not going to

2894
01:49:43,109 --> 01:49:41,760
go on the record unless this is

2895
01:49:44,950 --> 01:49:43,119
authentic

2896
01:49:47,510 --> 01:49:44,960
yeah well that that happened in

2897
01:49:49,990 --> 01:49:47,520
different countries jimmy i mean because

2898
01:49:52,709 --> 01:49:50,000
santilli sold the licensing rights

2899
01:49:57,510 --> 01:49:52,719
piecemeal to to various countries they

2900
01:50:02,070 --> 01:49:59,590
you know i mean i i lectured in italy a

2901
01:50:04,950 --> 01:50:02,080
few times i'm one of i mean the leading

2902
01:50:06,629 --> 01:50:04,960
pathologist in italy went on the record

2903
01:50:08,550 --> 01:50:06,639
and saying i think this is a medical

2904
01:50:10,950 --> 01:50:08,560
procedure didn't say it was an alien

2905
01:50:13,030 --> 01:50:10,960
wouldn't commit himself right you know

2906
01:50:15,030 --> 01:50:13,040
he says as far as i can see that is an

2907
01:50:17,270 --> 01:50:15,040
authentic medical procedure and he only

2908
01:50:18,709 --> 01:50:17,280
wouldn't say anymore but this happened

2909
01:50:20,550 --> 01:50:18,719
around the world

2910
01:50:22,550 --> 01:50:20,560
so you can understand

2911
01:50:24,550 --> 01:50:22,560
how public opinion was swayed when you

2912
01:50:27,590 --> 01:50:24,560
have these you know

2913
01:50:28,550 --> 01:50:27,600
officials from various um disciplines

2914
01:50:32,709 --> 01:50:28,560
you know

2915
01:50:34,550 --> 01:50:32,719
the genuine article to me of course they

2916
01:50:37,109 --> 01:50:34,560
didn't have all the information they

2917
01:50:38,229 --> 01:50:37,119
only had the videotape to work with

2918
01:50:40,229 --> 01:50:38,239
you know when they did the best they

2919
01:50:42,870 --> 01:50:40,239
could under the circumstances but yes i

2920
01:50:44,790 --> 01:50:42,880
mean when you come to stan winston

2921
01:50:47,270 --> 01:50:44,800
he was and still is even though he's

2922
01:50:49,669 --> 01:50:47,280
sadly no longer with us the top dog in

2923
01:50:50,709 --> 01:50:49,679
the world when it came to movie special

2924
01:50:52,950 --> 01:50:50,719
effects

2925
01:50:53,830 --> 01:50:52,960
and that swayed a lot of people but you

2926
01:50:56,550 --> 01:50:53,840
know

2927
01:50:59,030 --> 01:50:56,560
here in the uk we had we had a

2928
01:51:00,390 --> 01:50:59,040
home office pathologist dr christopher

2929
01:51:02,550 --> 01:51:00,400
milroy

2930
01:51:04,470 --> 01:51:02,560
uh shown the video

2931
01:51:07,030 --> 01:51:04,480
and he submitted a full report in

2932
01:51:08,229 --> 01:51:07,040
writing you know i have a copy of that

2933
01:51:09,910 --> 01:51:08,239
in my book

2934
01:51:11,510 --> 01:51:09,920
and i spoke to him on the telephone he

2935
01:51:13,430 --> 01:51:11,520
he didn't live that that far from where

2936
01:51:14,950 --> 01:51:13,440
i spoke to him on the phone and as far

2937
01:51:17,669 --> 01:51:14,960
as he was concerned it looked like on

2938
01:51:19,750 --> 01:51:17,679
authentic medical procedure so this

2939
01:51:23,990 --> 01:51:19,760
happened time and time again exactly and

2940
01:51:26,470 --> 01:51:24,000
cyrillect when at that time in 1995

2941
01:51:29,430 --> 01:51:26,480
there was a lot of sensational uh

2942
01:51:31,030 --> 01:51:29,440
television programming going on with you

2943
01:51:33,350 --> 01:51:31,040
know we just came up you know the o.j

2944
01:51:36,550 --> 01:51:33,360
simpson thing was is was out there and

2945
01:51:37,510 --> 01:51:36,560
and all of these famous cases were

2946
01:51:47,350 --> 01:51:37,520
uh

2947
01:51:50,229 --> 01:51:47,360
all over television and whacked was

2948
01:51:52,310 --> 01:51:50,239
somebody that was taking the stand and

2949
01:51:54,709 --> 01:51:52,320
he was somebody that people knew here in

2950
01:51:56,790 --> 01:51:54,719
the states you may not have known stan

2951
01:51:58,950 --> 01:51:56,800
winston but wecht was somebody you just

2952
01:52:01,430 --> 01:51:58,960
saw the week before giving live

2953
01:52:02,709 --> 01:52:01,440
testimony in some murder trial you know

2954
01:52:04,629 --> 01:52:02,719
what i mean and then

2955
01:52:06,229 --> 01:52:04,639
boom now he shows up on this alien

2956
01:52:07,030 --> 01:52:06,239
autopsy tape

2957
01:52:09,750 --> 01:52:07,040
and

2958
01:52:10,870 --> 01:52:09,760
it was uh something that helped sell the

2959
01:52:13,589 --> 01:52:10,880
tape and

2960
01:52:15,270 --> 01:52:13,599
and the authenticity of it and do you

2961
01:52:17,750 --> 01:52:15,280
think whack uh

2962
01:52:19,750 --> 01:52:17,760
in the end did he ever come out and say

2963
01:52:21,589 --> 01:52:19,760
you know what uh they took me out of

2964
01:52:24,390 --> 01:52:21,599
context or

2965
01:52:25,990 --> 01:52:24,400
that's not what i really meant to say or

2966
01:52:29,990 --> 01:52:26,000
well i don't think he did jimmy i know i

2967
01:52:31,910 --> 01:52:30,000
know um stan winston did he retracted it

2968
01:52:34,149 --> 01:52:31,920
in a magazine article

2969
01:52:36,149 --> 01:52:34,159
and said he thought it was a fake

2970
01:52:38,390 --> 01:52:36,159
but he didn't back that up with any

2971
01:52:41,109 --> 01:52:38,400
evidence or or why he came to that

2972
01:52:42,310 --> 01:52:41,119
conclusion uh he couldn't say well you

2973
01:52:43,910 --> 01:52:42,320
know if you look at this you look at

2974
01:52:46,070 --> 01:52:43,920
that you look at this that makes it a

2975
01:52:48,870 --> 01:52:46,080
fake right the really dangerous company

2976
01:52:50,550 --> 01:52:48,880
did right right right you know in in

2977
01:52:52,390 --> 01:52:50,560
fairness it's down he may have been a

2978
01:52:54,070 --> 01:52:52,400
lot busier than that's only dangerous

2979
01:52:55,589 --> 01:52:54,080
company you know and wasn't going to

2980
01:52:57,589 --> 01:52:55,599
waste his time and they asked him to

2981
01:52:59,350 --> 01:52:57,599
comment later and he said yeah you bet

2982
01:53:01,350 --> 01:52:59,360
but at that time nobody knew it was a

2983
01:53:03,430 --> 01:53:01,360
fake we're talking you know not not too

2984
01:53:05,750 --> 01:53:03,440
long after the event in question

2985
01:53:06,629 --> 01:53:05,760
but you know there was essentially

2986
01:53:10,149 --> 01:53:06,639
certain

2987
01:53:12,629 --> 01:53:10,159
there was a lot of going that happened

2988
01:53:14,790 --> 01:53:12,639
around him that he had no control over

2989
01:53:16,709 --> 01:53:14,800
that just happened to help him you know

2990
01:53:19,669 --> 01:53:16,719
like i said the x-files were going great

2991
01:53:21,430 --> 01:53:19,679
guns on television right and and so that

2992
01:53:23,109 --> 01:53:21,440
helped you know people don't think about

2993
01:53:25,109 --> 01:53:23,119
that but it did you know people were

2994
01:53:26,550 --> 01:53:25,119
used to having ufos in their living room

2995
01:53:28,950 --> 01:53:26,560
every monday night or whatever it was

2996
01:53:31,510 --> 01:53:28,960
and it was a great show so the whole

2997
01:53:34,070 --> 01:53:31,520
atmosphere was perhaps ready

2998
01:53:36,870 --> 01:53:34,080
for a for a roswell film an alien

2999
01:53:39,750 --> 01:53:36,880
autopsy film and hey presto just by

3000
01:53:41,990 --> 01:53:39,760
chance up pops the santilli film no we

3001
01:53:44,550 --> 01:53:42,000
didn't uh uh i want to get to ed german

3002
01:53:45,990 --> 01:53:44,560
how does how did he play into this in

3003
01:53:48,229 --> 01:53:46,000
the end

3004
01:53:51,270 --> 01:53:48,239
well ed's uh you know a

3005
01:53:53,430 --> 01:53:51,280
an old sultan in the us um

3006
01:53:55,830 --> 01:53:53,440
a nice enough guy his head and he's like

3007
01:53:57,189 --> 01:53:55,840
many independent researchers he became

3008
01:53:59,589 --> 01:53:57,199
fascinated

3009
01:54:00,790 --> 01:53:59,599
by the alien autopsy when it was shown

3010
01:54:02,550 --> 01:54:00,800
on television

3011
01:54:05,430 --> 01:54:02,560
and

3012
01:54:06,950 --> 01:54:05,440
wanted to to know more about it

3013
01:54:09,030 --> 01:54:06,960
but

3014
01:54:11,510 --> 01:54:09,040
ed used to live in in

3015
01:54:14,070 --> 01:54:11,520
albuquerque new mexico right

3016
01:54:16,870 --> 01:54:14,080
so he's used to the the the desert area

3017
01:54:17,990 --> 01:54:16,880
you know and and places like that

3018
01:54:20,870 --> 01:54:18,000
and um

3019
01:54:22,470 --> 01:54:20,880
one i mean spiros actually went to went

3020
01:54:24,149 --> 01:54:22,480
to roswell

3021
01:54:25,830 --> 01:54:24,159
and um

3022
01:54:27,189 --> 01:54:25,840
interviewed a number of people on camera

3023
01:54:28,790 --> 01:54:27,199
there

3024
01:54:30,870 --> 01:54:28,800
and one of the other things he did he

3025
01:54:32,070 --> 01:54:30,880
hired a local guy there's a local

3026
01:54:34,229 --> 01:54:32,080
um

3027
01:54:36,950 --> 01:54:34,239
like aircraft you can you can hire there

3028
01:54:38,629 --> 01:54:36,960
and he overflew the area and he made up

3029
01:54:39,430 --> 01:54:38,639
a fictitious

3030
01:54:41,109 --> 01:54:39,440
um

3031
01:54:43,669 --> 01:54:41,119
crash site

3032
01:54:45,430 --> 01:54:43,679
you know which sam tilly later released

3033
01:54:47,189 --> 01:54:45,440
and he used some old maps as well you

3034
01:54:49,350 --> 01:54:47,199
know and um

3035
01:54:51,430 --> 01:54:49,360
but ed took this literally and he

3036
01:54:53,270 --> 01:54:51,440
believed he finally i mean a number of

3037
01:54:55,750 --> 01:54:53,280
people went before him trying to wander

3038
01:54:58,149 --> 01:54:55,760
around in the desert but ed believes he

3039
01:54:59,350 --> 01:54:58,159
found the actual crash site now and i've

3040
01:55:01,189 --> 01:54:59,360
been there i've been on the spot with

3041
01:55:02,310 --> 01:55:01,199
him and it is it is a peculiar place i

3042
01:55:03,350 --> 01:55:02,320
don't think it's a crash site of

3043
01:55:05,589 --> 01:55:03,360
anything

3044
01:55:08,229 --> 01:55:05,599
but i'm not a geologist but he's

3045
01:55:11,830 --> 01:55:08,239
convinced that the santilli film is real

3046
01:55:12,629 --> 01:55:11,840
that spiros and all the others are liars

3047
01:55:13,430 --> 01:55:12,639
uh

3048
01:55:15,589 --> 01:55:13,440
you know

3049
01:55:17,430 --> 01:55:15,599
that santil is the the genuine article

3050
01:55:20,390 --> 01:55:17,440
that the film is real

3051
01:55:22,310 --> 01:55:20,400
and he he knows where this crash site is

3052
01:55:24,149 --> 01:55:22,320
excuse me i mean i have i detail all

3053
01:55:26,149 --> 01:55:24,159
that in my book there's pictures of the

3054
01:55:27,830 --> 01:55:26,159
place there i mean yeah you would never

3055
01:55:30,709 --> 01:55:27,840
find it in a thousand years jimmy if you

3056
01:55:33,750 --> 01:55:30,719
were looking for it you know right

3057
01:55:35,350 --> 01:55:33,760
that's my phone going i do apologize

3058
01:55:39,270 --> 01:55:35,360
that's the man in black we're coming off

3059
01:55:39,280 --> 01:55:42,390
in the morning

3060
01:55:48,310 --> 01:55:45,350
but eddie's totally totally convinced of

3061
01:55:52,390 --> 01:55:48,320
the film's authenticity and uh i was out

3062
01:55:54,070 --> 01:55:52,400
in in in roswell with him in in 2007

3063
01:55:55,910 --> 01:55:54,080
and we i lectured at the convention

3064
01:55:57,270 --> 01:55:55,920
there and we we toured the various

3065
01:55:59,270 --> 01:55:57,280
places and then they took me to this

3066
01:56:02,310 --> 01:55:59,280
place what he believes is the crash site

3067
01:56:04,950 --> 01:56:02,320
and it is exactly as spheros um you know

3068
01:56:07,270 --> 01:56:04,960
detail it but it was made up and you

3069
01:56:09,510 --> 01:56:07,280
know the will to believe is is is is

3070
01:56:12,310 --> 01:56:09,520
very great and you know it's insane and

3071
01:56:13,750 --> 01:56:12,320
his belief is ed but um

3072
01:56:15,350 --> 01:56:13,760
you know you know what belief does

3073
01:56:17,430 --> 01:56:15,360
belief is the enemy jimmy you know he

3074
01:56:19,350 --> 01:56:17,440
believes in it no matter what i mean if

3075
01:56:22,070 --> 01:56:19,360
santilli stood up and said

3076
01:56:24,390 --> 01:56:22,080
you know what spiros is right i admit

3077
01:56:25,830 --> 01:56:24,400
everything then ed would shift the goal

3078
01:56:27,589 --> 01:56:25,840
post again and say well somebody's paid

3079
01:56:29,750 --> 01:56:27,599
him to say that or it is really the

3080
01:56:32,390 --> 01:56:29,760
government that's doing it or the men in

3081
01:56:35,109 --> 01:56:32,400
black or bogeyman or somebody else

3082
01:56:36,870 --> 01:56:35,119
right right no matter what right okay

3083
01:56:39,589 --> 01:56:36,880
let's take another break this is a good

3084
01:56:40,870 --> 01:56:39,599
spot and when we come back this is fade

3085
01:56:42,390 --> 01:56:40,880
to black i'm your host jimmy church

3086
01:56:44,229 --> 01:56:42,400
we're on the dark matter radio network

3087
01:56:45,350 --> 01:56:44,239
talking to philip mantle live from the

3088
01:56:47,990 --> 01:56:45,360
uk

3089
01:56:49,750 --> 01:56:48,000
editor of ufo today uh when we come back

3090
01:56:51,830 --> 01:56:49,760
i just want to touch a little bit more

3091
01:56:53,430 --> 01:56:51,840
on ray santilli today i got a couple

3092
01:56:55,350 --> 01:56:53,440
more questions but i want to talk about

3093
01:56:57,430 --> 01:56:55,360
your new book okay so

3094
01:56:58,950 --> 01:56:57,440
we'll take a quick break this is fade to

3095
01:57:01,030 --> 01:56:58,960
black jimmy church don't touch that

3096
01:57:02,629 --> 01:57:01,040
mouse we will be back right after this

3097
01:57:12,790 --> 01:57:02,639
stay with us phillip

3098
01:57:19,589 --> 01:57:14,149
hi everybody this is rob halpert the

3099
01:57:23,990 --> 01:57:21,589
what's up my name is brian taylor ninja

3100
01:57:28,950 --> 01:57:24,000
badass extraordinaire and this is

3101
01:57:33,149 --> 01:57:29,790
hey

3102
01:57:34,709 --> 01:57:33,159
jcr in your face

3103
01:57:52,149 --> 01:57:34,719
jimmychurchradio.com

3104
01:57:56,550 --> 01:57:53,669
all right welcome back everybody jimmy

3105
01:57:58,229 --> 01:57:56,560
church made the black on the dark matter

3106
01:58:00,629 --> 01:57:58,239
radio network thanks for everybody

3107
01:58:02,709 --> 01:58:00,639
listening around the world uh we've got

3108
01:58:05,270 --> 01:58:02,719
some pictures up over on the website go

3109
01:58:07,510 --> 01:58:05,280
over to jimmychurchradio.com

3110
01:58:09,270 --> 01:58:07,520
got some stuff posted as we always do

3111
01:58:12,310 --> 01:58:09,280
and all of the links

3112
01:58:14,390 --> 01:58:12,320
for philip mantle ufo today and his

3113
01:58:15,430 --> 01:58:14,400
books are all up on the site go check

3114
01:58:18,189 --> 01:58:15,440
that out

3115
01:58:20,310 --> 01:58:18,199
and you can always email us jimmy

3116
01:58:22,229 --> 01:58:20,320
jimmychurchradio.com and after the show

3117
01:58:24,070 --> 01:58:22,239
tonight like i always do

3118
01:58:26,629 --> 01:58:24,080
i'll be over on the website hanging out

3119
01:58:28,709 --> 01:58:26,639
on the forums and seeing what everybody

3120
01:58:30,870 --> 01:58:28,719
has to say all right all right back to

3121
01:58:32,550 --> 01:58:30,880
philip philip are you still there

3122
01:58:35,669 --> 01:58:32,560
i'm still in jimmy yes

3123
01:58:39,910 --> 01:58:35,679
all right now uh to carry on a little

3124
01:58:42,390 --> 01:58:39,920
bit more about santilli and uh

3125
01:58:45,109 --> 01:58:42,400
uh i've got i've got about four or five

3126
01:58:47,589 --> 01:58:45,119
very direct questions and again

3127
01:58:50,149 --> 01:58:47,599
i have no idea where his moral character

3128
01:58:52,390 --> 01:58:50,159
is today but the first question that i

3129
01:58:53,750 --> 01:58:52,400
have is do you think he feels

3130
01:58:55,350 --> 01:58:53,760
guilty

3131
01:58:57,350 --> 01:58:55,360
no not at all

3132
01:58:58,709 --> 01:58:57,360
not not one iota i mean again when you

3133
01:59:00,709 --> 01:58:58,719
get to know ray

3134
01:59:02,950 --> 01:59:00,719
and some of the people with whom he

3135
01:59:04,870 --> 01:59:02,960
mixed and worked with like keith bateman

3136
01:59:07,189 --> 01:59:04,880
the differences with keith he will admit

3137
01:59:10,390 --> 01:59:07,199
we would do anything to make money

3138
01:59:11,990 --> 01:59:10,400
not illegal but you know we we'd been

3139
01:59:14,229 --> 01:59:12,000
the rules a little bit i mean keith told

3140
01:59:16,709 --> 01:59:14,239
us a story where there was a time in the

3141
01:59:18,550 --> 01:59:16,719
uk for example where keep fit videos

3142
01:59:20,550 --> 01:59:18,560
with all the rays jimmy

3143
01:59:22,950 --> 01:59:20,560
so he thought i'll make one and i'll

3144
01:59:26,229 --> 01:59:22,960
make some money but he did it with with

3145
01:59:27,910 --> 01:59:26,239
um a couple of ladies in the nude and a

3146
01:59:29,750 --> 01:59:27,920
man in the nude

3147
01:59:31,270 --> 01:59:29,760
and they weren't trained to do keep

3148
01:59:33,350 --> 01:59:31,280
fitting you know

3149
01:59:34,950 --> 01:59:33,360
and he made this he paid his few

3150
01:59:36,550 --> 01:59:34,960
thousand pounds to make it and somebody

3151
01:59:38,070 --> 01:59:36,560
looked at him and said you can't release

3152
01:59:39,510 --> 01:59:38,080
that because he's dangerous they're not

3153
01:59:41,910 --> 01:59:39,520
doing it right

3154
01:59:43,430 --> 01:59:41,920
so keith came up with this this crazy

3155
01:59:46,629 --> 01:59:43,440
story

3156
01:59:48,310 --> 01:59:46,639
where he allegedly phoned one of his his

3157
01:59:50,070 --> 01:59:48,320
colleagues who we worked with and from

3158
01:59:53,109 --> 01:59:50,080
france and he said

3159
01:59:54,870 --> 01:59:53,119
i want to make a new keep fit video and

3160
01:59:58,390 --> 01:59:54,880
he says the line was bad and he thought

3161
02:00:01,030 --> 01:59:58,400
i said a nude keep fit video and hey

3162
02:00:02,550 --> 02:00:01,040
presto and that little video then went

3163
02:00:04,470 --> 02:00:02,560
on to make money because of the the

3164
02:00:06,790 --> 02:00:04,480
crazy story he'd made up but keith would

3165
02:00:08,709 --> 02:00:06,800
admit that and he told us some of the

3166
02:00:10,950 --> 02:00:08,719
deaf stunts that him and santilli and

3167
02:00:13,830 --> 02:00:10,960
others have become involved in

3168
02:00:15,669 --> 02:00:13,840
so when you get to know the kind of

3169
02:00:17,510 --> 02:00:15,679
characters you're dealing with jimmy i

3170
02:00:19,189 --> 02:00:17,520
would have to say no he wouldn't he

3171
02:00:21,910 --> 02:00:19,199
wouldn't but i'll give you another a

3172
02:00:24,550 --> 02:00:21,920
little quote about santilli he uh he

3173
02:00:26,629 --> 02:00:24,560
owed a allegedly older gentleman a

3174
02:00:28,229 --> 02:00:26,639
significant amount of money

3175
02:00:31,109 --> 02:00:28,239
and this chap got on

3176
02:00:32,229 --> 02:00:31,119
an airplane to fly to the us flying

3177
02:00:34,229 --> 02:00:32,239
economy

3178
02:00:36,310 --> 02:00:34,239
and who comes out from first class up

3179
02:00:37,910 --> 02:00:36,320
front for race and tilly and said do you

3180
02:00:39,589 --> 02:00:37,920
want to come and have a drink with us

3181
02:00:41,510 --> 02:00:39,599
and he's thinking he owes me a bucket

3182
02:00:44,070 --> 02:00:41,520
load of money yeah he's in first class

3183
02:00:45,669 --> 02:00:44,080
and i'm down here in economy so i don't

3184
02:00:47,990 --> 02:00:45,679
think he would it would have lost any

3185
02:00:51,109 --> 02:00:48,000
sleep at all you mean quite the opposite

3186
02:00:53,189 --> 02:00:51,119
how did you uh eventually or did you

3187
02:00:55,510 --> 02:00:53,199
confront him directly now that you've

3188
02:00:57,189 --> 02:00:55,520
got you know you've got spiros here

3189
02:00:59,830 --> 02:00:57,199
you've got all the smoking guns and

3190
02:01:02,870 --> 02:00:59,840
you've got a bunch of smoking guns

3191
02:01:05,270 --> 02:01:02,880
uh how did you approach santilli

3192
02:01:08,390 --> 02:01:05,280
well i went to meet him in london when i

3193
02:01:10,149 --> 02:01:08,400
was writing my book and um you know

3194
02:01:12,470 --> 02:01:10,159
confronted him and his business partner

3195
02:01:14,070 --> 02:01:12,480
has a chat called gary shufield but yet

3196
02:01:16,229 --> 02:01:14,080
when you go to london you're meeting

3197
02:01:18,070 --> 02:01:16,239
santilli on his own turf you know he'll

3198
02:01:19,430 --> 02:01:18,080
only meet you where he wants to meet you

3199
02:01:21,350 --> 02:01:19,440
can't just turn up at his office and

3200
02:01:23,990 --> 02:01:21,360
walk in even though i know where it is

3201
02:01:25,910 --> 02:01:24,000
right so we met at a local um

3202
02:01:27,270 --> 02:01:25,920
restaurant nearby and he just denied it

3203
02:01:29,669 --> 02:01:27,280
i mean you know

3204
02:01:31,109 --> 02:01:29,679
he could sell you a cow with no wheels

3205
02:01:32,870 --> 02:01:31,119
jimmy and tell you it's your fault that

3206
02:01:34,629 --> 02:01:32,880
it won't go you know

3207
02:01:38,629 --> 02:01:34,639
wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

3208
02:01:40,790 --> 02:01:38,639
wait wait whoa he denied it

3209
02:01:42,470 --> 02:01:40,800
he was still after after everything

3210
02:01:45,109 --> 02:01:42,480
you're you know you you're telling him

3211
02:01:47,109 --> 02:01:45,119
you're writing a book about this hoax

3212
02:01:49,270 --> 02:01:47,119
and he's still in denial you're not

3213
02:01:50,629 --> 02:01:49,280
going to write a book about it unless

3214
02:01:52,070 --> 02:01:50,639
you've got

3215
02:01:53,990 --> 02:01:52,080
evidence

3216
02:01:55,910 --> 02:01:54,000
well he just he just says spiros only

3217
02:01:58,629 --> 02:01:55,920
played a small part in it

3218
02:02:00,470 --> 02:01:58,639
he says that spiros uh helped make the

3219
02:02:03,189 --> 02:02:00,480
documentary did a bit of editing and

3220
02:02:05,669 --> 02:02:03,199
this kind of thing you know and when you

3221
02:02:07,910 --> 02:02:05,679
watch the alien autopsy movie

3222
02:02:09,350 --> 02:02:07,920
you know that was what was made that

3223
02:02:11,669 --> 02:02:09,360
there is a spirit

3224
02:02:13,589 --> 02:02:11,679
is of um a greek cypriot origin although

3225
02:02:15,830 --> 02:02:13,599
he's born here in the uk then he's

3226
02:02:17,270 --> 02:02:15,840
actually a greek chap in it or a greek

3227
02:02:19,589 --> 02:02:17,280
actor

3228
02:02:21,750 --> 02:02:19,599
and he makes um

3229
02:02:23,990 --> 02:02:21,760
um wedding videos and they use him to

3230
02:02:24,790 --> 02:02:24,000
film it and that's a slant at spuros you

3231
02:02:26,790 --> 02:02:24,800
know

3232
02:02:29,189 --> 02:02:26,800
uh sparrows doesn't make wedding videos

3233
02:02:31,510 --> 02:02:29,199
you know but he used to run his own tv

3234
02:02:33,510 --> 02:02:31,520
studios right

3235
02:02:35,589 --> 02:02:33,520
they sat there and denied it and said no

3236
02:02:37,990 --> 02:02:35,599
spuros had a small part to play in some

3237
02:02:39,669 --> 02:02:38,000
of the editing of the final video but

3238
02:02:42,070 --> 02:02:39,679
nothing more than that and this you know

3239
02:02:43,669 --> 02:02:42,080
the film is what it is and he's a bit

3240
02:02:45,750 --> 02:02:43,679
like a politician he'll say a lot of

3241
02:02:48,390 --> 02:02:45,760
things without telling you anything

3242
02:02:49,830 --> 02:02:48,400
and just flatly denies it you see

3243
02:02:52,390 --> 02:02:49,840
i don't think you can ever admit it

3244
02:02:54,950 --> 02:02:52,400
jimmy because you know he's signed

3245
02:02:57,589 --> 02:02:54,960
contracts he made the movie you know he

3246
02:02:59,510 --> 02:02:57,599
convinced the movie people that this his

3247
02:03:01,350 --> 02:02:59,520
story was the genuine article if you

3248
02:03:03,430 --> 02:03:01,360
ever watch the movie you even see him

3249
02:03:05,350 --> 02:03:03,440
and gary shoefield

3250
02:03:07,669 --> 02:03:05,360
at the end of it doing a little talk you

3251
02:03:09,589 --> 02:03:07,679
know right and um so i don't think he

3252
02:03:11,030 --> 02:03:09,599
can ever admit that it was a fake to me

3253
02:03:13,830 --> 02:03:11,040
or anyone else

3254
02:03:16,790 --> 02:03:13,840
and um because he could he could face

3255
02:03:21,109 --> 02:03:18,470
if i was in this situation i would never

3256
02:03:23,189 --> 02:03:21,119
admit it either well there you go but he

3257
02:03:26,070 --> 02:03:23,199
hasn't been confronted i can assure you

3258
02:03:27,669 --> 02:03:26,080
you know what's he doing today

3259
02:03:30,149 --> 02:03:27,679
well he's doing the same as he always

3260
02:03:32,310 --> 02:03:30,159
did i mean his main um business was

3261
02:03:35,109 --> 02:03:32,320
music and and still is

3262
02:03:37,750 --> 02:03:35,119
um he's still has you know uh the

3263
02:03:39,430 --> 02:03:37,760
business in london uh is quite a

3264
02:03:41,510 --> 02:03:39,440
successful business he's not he's not a

3265
02:03:43,510 --> 02:03:41,520
poor man by any uh stretch of the

3266
02:03:45,189 --> 02:03:43,520
imagination he has a wife and family and

3267
02:03:47,109 --> 02:03:45,199
brothers and sisters

3268
02:03:50,310 --> 02:03:47,119
and um you know

3269
02:03:53,510 --> 02:03:50,320
and he still peddles the same story well

3270
02:03:56,870 --> 02:03:53,520
because my you know i'm shocked that

3271
02:03:59,270 --> 02:03:56,880
you know obviously in in our industry

3272
02:04:01,990 --> 02:03:59,280
he couldn't do anything you know his his

3273
02:04:03,910 --> 02:04:02,000
reputation is gone but i guess they just

3274
02:04:05,990 --> 02:04:03,920
don't care about

3275
02:04:07,589 --> 02:04:06,000
you know things like this

3276
02:04:08,830 --> 02:04:07,599
how do i i want to you know i don't want

3277
02:04:12,229 --> 02:04:08,840
to get sued

3278
02:04:13,669 --> 02:04:12,239
but an obvious hoax that he did he made

3279
02:04:15,350 --> 02:04:13,679
a lot of money

3280
02:04:17,270 --> 02:04:15,360
and i don't know but it must have been

3281
02:04:18,950 --> 02:04:17,280
in the millions and millions of dollars

3282
02:04:21,510 --> 02:04:18,960
as far as i know he hasn't given any of

3283
02:04:22,709 --> 02:04:21,520
it back he still owes me about 70 bucks

3284
02:04:26,629 --> 02:04:22,719
in my opinion

3285
02:04:30,149 --> 02:04:26,639
but um but in in his industry they just

3286
02:04:32,310 --> 02:04:30,159
don't care and he's able to just move on

3287
02:04:33,990 --> 02:04:32,320
and not have industry think about the

3288
02:04:35,669 --> 02:04:34,000
industry jimmy when you do a tv

3289
02:04:36,950 --> 02:04:35,679
documentary they're not there to tell

3290
02:04:38,950 --> 02:04:36,960
the truth they're there to make a

3291
02:04:41,430 --> 02:04:38,960
documentary but there to sell the

3292
02:04:43,589 --> 02:04:41,440
advertising and make money you know all

3293
02:04:45,990 --> 02:04:43,599
of the broadcasters that released this

3294
02:04:47,990 --> 02:04:46,000
film all made money on the back of it so

3295
02:04:49,910 --> 02:04:48,000
they couldn't sue santilli for loss of

3296
02:04:51,750 --> 02:04:49,920
money because they made their money out

3297
02:04:54,390 --> 02:04:51,760
of it and same with the newspapers and

3298
02:04:56,229 --> 02:04:54,400
the magazines so everybody gained out of

3299
02:04:58,550 --> 02:04:56,239
it you know nobody lost out in that

3300
02:05:01,109 --> 02:04:58,560
respect you might be on thin ice with

3301
02:05:03,030 --> 02:05:01,119
with with the uh the movie company but

3302
02:05:05,109 --> 02:05:03,040
again we don't know the contents of the

3303
02:05:07,669 --> 02:05:05,119
the contract that he signed you know we

3304
02:05:09,430 --> 02:05:07,679
don't know that right but you know we've

3305
02:05:11,350 --> 02:05:09,440
challenged him and i've said to his face

3306
02:05:13,189 --> 02:05:11,360
i've said in public i say in my book he

3307
02:05:15,270 --> 02:05:13,199
is a fake it is a hoax

3308
02:05:16,950 --> 02:05:15,280
and uh it would never sue you because

3309
02:05:19,589 --> 02:05:16,960
he'd have then have to prove it was real

3310
02:05:22,149 --> 02:05:19,599
of course and he can't right so you know

3311
02:05:25,030 --> 02:05:22,159
so you anybody can call it a fake you

3312
02:05:26,629 --> 02:05:25,040
know at a hoax because he would never

3313
02:05:28,629 --> 02:05:26,639
take legal action because he'd have to

3314
02:05:30,390 --> 02:05:28,639
put up or shut up and of course he would

3315
02:05:32,709 --> 02:05:30,400
lose you know he can't produce his

3316
02:05:35,350 --> 02:05:32,719
camera man he can't produce any evidence

3317
02:05:37,510 --> 02:05:35,360
and and you know adding to an item and

3318
02:05:39,109 --> 02:05:37,520
you know it and and you're absolutely

3319
02:05:41,669 --> 02:05:39,119
right he just doesn't have to and he

3320
02:05:43,350 --> 02:05:41,679
doesn't care he's moved on

3321
02:05:44,870 --> 02:05:43,360
yeah i mean i mean i've been involved in

3322
02:05:47,350 --> 02:05:44,880
a number of documentaries they're there

3323
02:05:48,629 --> 02:05:47,360
to make a program they make it they move

3324
02:05:51,270 --> 02:05:48,639
on to the next job they don't know

3325
02:05:53,030 --> 02:05:51,280
anything about the subject you know

3326
02:05:54,550 --> 02:05:53,040
and it's just a job we've made the money

3327
02:05:56,470 --> 02:05:54,560
we got we know we got the commission for

3328
02:05:58,149 --> 02:05:56,480
it and away we go right

3329
02:05:59,669 --> 02:05:58,159
next is one on bird watching or whatever

3330
02:06:04,070 --> 02:05:59,679
you know don't know anything about that

3331
02:06:09,109 --> 02:06:07,030
uh all right enough with ray santilli

3332
02:06:10,070 --> 02:06:09,119
you know what i i

3333
02:06:15,910 --> 02:06:10,080
i

3334
02:06:18,629 --> 02:06:15,920
that he forced a lot of us to swallow

3335
02:06:20,870 --> 02:06:18,639
and that this this this business that

3336
02:06:23,910 --> 02:06:20,880
we're in the this business of the truth

3337
02:06:26,310 --> 02:06:23,920
and ufology and you know it's a it's a

3338
02:06:28,950 --> 02:06:26,320
rock it's a big boulder that we are

3339
02:06:30,870 --> 02:06:28,960
constantly rolling uphill

3340
02:06:33,350 --> 02:06:30,880
and we're fighting the good fight and

3341
02:06:36,310 --> 02:06:33,360
then somebody like ray comes along and

3342
02:06:38,790 --> 02:06:36,320
just messes it up for everybody well you

3343
02:06:41,109 --> 02:06:38,800
know i mean what i would say uh

3344
02:06:42,950 --> 02:06:41,119
regarding that jimmy is that there were

3345
02:06:45,109 --> 02:06:42,960
the likes of the late philip class and

3346
02:06:45,990 --> 02:06:45,119
others who automatically said it's a

3347
02:06:47,910 --> 02:06:46,000
fake

3348
02:06:49,990 --> 02:06:47,920
but not one of them could prove it not

3349
02:06:51,990 --> 02:06:50,000
one could even give a slice of evidence

3350
02:06:52,950 --> 02:06:52,000
that it was a fake so at the end of the

3351
02:06:56,069 --> 02:06:52,960
day

3352
02:06:58,149 --> 02:06:56,079
it was ufology that proved it to be a

3353
02:07:00,229 --> 02:06:58,159
fake you know we've policed our own

3354
02:07:01,589 --> 02:07:00,239
business right and we're not afraid to

3355
02:07:03,189 --> 02:07:01,599
say look you know initially we thought

3356
02:07:05,430 --> 02:07:03,199
we might be on to something but at the

3357
02:07:07,990 --> 02:07:05,440
end of the day and it took a long time

3358
02:07:10,709 --> 02:07:08,000
we finally got to the bottom of it

3359
02:07:12,790 --> 02:07:10,719
hopefully it's a fake but it was ufology

3360
02:07:15,109 --> 02:07:12,800
that proved it not not the philip class

3361
02:07:15,990 --> 02:07:15,119
of this world well i hope that you are

3362
02:07:20,550 --> 02:07:16,000
never

3363
02:07:25,030 --> 02:07:22,470
you do not give up

3364
02:07:27,910 --> 02:07:25,040
until you know yeah and without your

3365
02:07:31,270 --> 02:07:27,920
work uh quite possibly if you think

3366
02:07:33,109 --> 02:07:31,280
about it if all of as fortunate as as he

3367
02:07:35,030 --> 02:07:33,119
was for things to fall into place well

3368
02:07:36,470 --> 02:07:35,040
the same thing happened to you and you

3369
02:07:38,709 --> 02:07:36,480
could have given up

3370
02:07:40,470 --> 02:07:38,719
and i have to you know pay tribute to my

3371
02:07:42,069 --> 02:07:40,480
colleagues who helped in this mark

3372
02:07:44,390 --> 02:07:42,079
center you've mentioned has been a great

3373
02:07:46,149 --> 02:07:44,400
help down the years and continues to be

3374
02:07:47,750 --> 02:07:46,159
so but there are others there's a chap

3375
02:07:50,229 --> 02:07:47,760
called odd gunner road in norway there's

3376
02:07:51,669 --> 02:07:50,239
mauricio bayata in italy right and many

3377
02:07:53,189 --> 02:07:51,679
more around the world but they all

3378
02:07:55,189 --> 02:07:53,199
played a part i may have been the front

3379
02:07:57,589 --> 02:07:55,199
man but they all played their part

3380
02:07:59,830 --> 02:07:57,599
especially mark and i i can't say thank

3381
02:08:01,830 --> 02:07:59,840
you enough to him yeah that was it was

3382
02:08:03,750 --> 02:08:01,840
one of the best uh

3383
02:08:05,669 --> 02:08:03,760
when you do live radio this is the thing

3384
02:08:08,950 --> 02:08:05,679
when you do live radio

3385
02:08:11,350 --> 02:08:08,960
things accidents happen and accidents

3386
02:08:12,709 --> 02:08:11,360
are usually the best part of live radio

3387
02:08:14,709 --> 02:08:12,719
i don't care

3388
02:08:16,950 --> 02:08:14,719
it it's like a guitar solo you're

3389
02:08:18,709 --> 02:08:16,960
improvising a guitar solo and that one

3390
02:08:21,030 --> 02:08:18,719
accidental note

3391
02:08:23,589 --> 02:08:21,040
that one thing that was an accident

3392
02:08:25,430 --> 02:08:23,599
makes it brilliant and when mark center

3393
02:08:28,390 --> 02:08:25,440
called in

3394
02:08:31,589 --> 02:08:28,400
that was it was already a great show

3395
02:08:35,350 --> 02:08:31,599
and and when he called in it was his

3396
02:08:37,990 --> 02:08:35,360
energy and his emotions tied with this

3397
02:08:40,629 --> 02:08:38,000
he's a pit bull you know and yeah you're

3398
02:08:42,709 --> 02:08:40,639
absolutely right he is very emotional

3399
02:08:44,149 --> 02:08:42,719
when it comes to this and it was uh it

3400
02:08:46,069 --> 02:08:44,159
was one of those accidents that was

3401
02:08:48,470 --> 02:08:46,079
brilliant

3402
02:08:51,350 --> 02:08:48,480
and i wanted to move on real quick

3403
02:08:52,950 --> 02:08:51,360
uh and talk about this book

3404
02:08:54,629 --> 02:08:52,960
and and

3405
02:08:56,709 --> 02:08:54,639
uh well a little bit about the book

3406
02:08:59,189 --> 02:08:56,719
because it's a novel that's that's i

3407
02:09:02,390 --> 02:08:59,199
want to know why you took that approach

3408
02:09:06,069 --> 02:09:02,400
but um you based it on

3409
02:09:08,470 --> 02:09:06,079
all of your research in real cases so

3410
02:09:11,430 --> 02:09:08,480
an abduction for me that

3411
02:09:13,510 --> 02:09:11,440
i've had uh i've had travis walton on

3412
02:09:16,149 --> 02:09:13,520
the show i've had yvonne smith on the

3413
02:09:17,189 --> 02:09:16,159
show i've had uh nadine lalitch on the

3414
02:09:21,510 --> 02:09:17,199
show

3415
02:09:22,870 --> 02:09:21,520
um uh talking about abduction and and

3416
02:09:25,910 --> 02:09:22,880
and

3417
02:09:28,629 --> 02:09:25,920
i i am not well fascinated is the wrong

3418
02:09:32,149 --> 02:09:28,639
word i'm i'm more concerned

3419
02:09:34,390 --> 02:09:32,159
uh about the entire abduction phenomena

3420
02:09:36,629 --> 02:09:34,400
so how did you

3421
02:09:37,830 --> 02:09:36,639
uh how did you get to the point where

3422
02:09:39,910 --> 02:09:37,840
you thought

3423
02:09:41,990 --> 02:09:39,920
i need i need to i need to put pen to

3424
02:09:44,310 --> 02:09:42,000
paper and get this out

3425
02:09:46,470 --> 02:09:44,320
yeah i mean i mean again going back many

3426
02:09:49,189 --> 02:09:46,480
years we used to have a a very grand

3427
02:09:50,870 --> 02:09:49,199
sounding thing like caller a ufo hotline

3428
02:09:52,950 --> 02:09:50,880
where you could ring in and report your

3429
02:09:55,350 --> 02:09:52,960
sighting it was simply an answer phone

3430
02:09:57,910 --> 02:09:55,360
service jimmy but when we started it the

3431
02:10:00,229 --> 02:09:57,920
first call was a local lady who was

3432
02:10:02,069 --> 02:10:00,239
turned out to be an abductee so that

3433
02:10:03,669 --> 02:10:02,079
sent me on the path this is this is back

3434
02:10:07,189 --> 02:10:03,679
in in in the

3435
02:10:08,709 --> 02:10:07,199
you know the the late 80s early 90s

3436
02:10:09,990 --> 02:10:08,719
there wasn't that many abductees in

3437
02:10:12,709 --> 02:10:10,000
britain who have gone on the on the

3438
02:10:15,189 --> 02:10:12,719
record at that point so i i it kind of

3439
02:10:17,350 --> 02:10:15,199
intrigued me i knew bud hopkins

3440
02:10:19,830 --> 02:10:17,360
was sadly no longer with us

3441
02:10:22,550 --> 02:10:19,840
and uh i went to interview many of them

3442
02:10:24,870 --> 02:10:22,560
i mean literally in the car up and down

3443
02:10:26,790 --> 02:10:24,880
the country from scotland to wales to

3444
02:10:29,990 --> 02:10:26,800
the south coast of england

3445
02:10:32,950 --> 02:10:30,000
and um you know most of them made a

3446
02:10:35,669 --> 02:10:32,960
quite an impression on me and i also

3447
02:10:39,589 --> 02:10:35,679
accessed some archive material

3448
02:10:41,750 --> 02:10:39,599
and my first book um published in 1994

3449
02:10:43,990 --> 02:10:41,760
was called without consent which deals

3450
02:10:46,709 --> 02:10:44,000
with abductions and missing time cases

3451
02:10:48,390 --> 02:10:46,719
purely in the uk nowhere else

3452
02:10:50,310 --> 02:10:48,400
and um

3453
02:10:51,750 --> 02:10:50,320
it went from there really i mean

3454
02:10:54,870 --> 02:10:51,760
more often not when you talk about

3455
02:10:56,470 --> 02:10:54,880
abduction cases you will relate you know

3456
02:10:58,390 --> 02:10:56,480
this happened to them they went here

3457
02:11:00,870 --> 02:10:58,400
they remember this they had a hypnosis

3458
02:11:03,270 --> 02:11:00,880
or they didn't and that's it you know

3459
02:11:05,350 --> 02:11:03,280
it's very matter of fact jimmy what i

3460
02:11:07,589 --> 02:11:05,360
found on my travels was

3461
02:11:09,270 --> 02:11:07,599
the emotional side of things

3462
02:11:11,350 --> 02:11:09,280
which was what happened to them

3463
02:11:13,510 --> 02:11:11,360
afterwards how did their family react to

3464
02:11:15,589 --> 02:11:13,520
this how did their friends treat them

3465
02:11:17,910 --> 02:11:15,599
and a lot of that has been largely

3466
02:11:20,310 --> 02:11:17,920
ignored because it's like any traumatic

3467
02:11:22,310 --> 02:11:20,320
experience that is the main part of it

3468
02:11:24,069 --> 02:11:22,320
not what happened it's what happened

3469
02:11:26,069 --> 02:11:24,079
around you and what happened afterwards

3470
02:11:28,069 --> 02:11:26,079
exactly and that was kind of highlighted

3471
02:11:29,830 --> 02:11:28,079
in in in the travis walt movie the fire

3472
02:11:31,750 --> 02:11:29,840
in the sky exactly

3473
02:11:34,149 --> 02:11:31,760
it wasn't necessarily what happened at

3474
02:11:35,910 --> 02:11:34,159
the time it was happened around him with

3475
02:11:39,350 --> 02:11:35,920
his family and friends

3476
02:11:41,750 --> 02:11:39,360
so just as a you know as an exercise

3477
02:11:44,069 --> 02:11:41,760
i i wrote this fictitious story although

3478
02:11:46,390 --> 02:11:44,079
it's based on people i had interviewed

3479
02:11:48,470 --> 02:11:46,400
even the ufo researcher in it is a was a

3480
02:11:49,990 --> 02:11:48,480
real person it's not me it's based on an

3481
02:11:51,669 --> 02:11:50,000
old friend of mine

3482
02:11:53,669 --> 02:11:51,679
and and

3483
02:11:55,189 --> 02:11:53,679
i call it once upon a missing time it's

3484
02:11:57,510 --> 02:11:55,199
a play on words there you know we know

3485
02:11:59,510 --> 02:11:57,520
that you know the old fairy started once

3486
02:12:00,390 --> 02:11:59,520
upon a time and i just put missing time

3487
02:12:03,830 --> 02:12:00,400
in it

3488
02:12:06,709 --> 02:12:03,840
uh and i concentrate more in the novel

3489
02:12:09,109 --> 02:12:06,719
on the people themselves and what

3490
02:12:11,750 --> 02:12:09,119
happens to them how they are treated you

3491
02:12:13,350 --> 02:12:11,760
know how they cope with it emotionally

3492
02:12:14,950 --> 02:12:13,360
but anymore this is all bait and it

3493
02:12:16,790 --> 02:12:14,960
tells you in the epilogue that you know

3494
02:12:18,550 --> 02:12:16,800
if you're looking for answers to the ufo

3495
02:12:21,430 --> 02:12:18,560
abduction you this is not the book for

3496
02:12:23,750 --> 02:12:21,440
you you know you won't find any answers

3497
02:12:25,270 --> 02:12:23,760
here so it deals with that kind of thing

3498
02:12:27,030 --> 02:12:25,280
and i thought the best way to do that

3499
02:12:29,109 --> 02:12:27,040
jimmy was to show that these are

3500
02:12:32,310 --> 02:12:29,119
real people you know they're not

3501
02:12:34,229 --> 02:12:32,320
lunatics so you know not cases

3502
02:12:35,669 --> 02:12:34,239
when these things happen whatever they

3503
02:12:37,430 --> 02:12:35,679
turn out to be

3504
02:12:38,870 --> 02:12:37,440
these are people from all walks of life

3505
02:12:40,310 --> 02:12:38,880
they're going about their daily tasks

3506
02:12:42,709 --> 02:12:40,320
they're going to work picking the

3507
02:12:44,470 --> 02:12:42,719
children up taking a walk in the park

3508
02:12:46,950 --> 02:12:44,480
one of which was in without consent as a

3509
02:12:49,270 --> 02:12:46,960
policeman in his patrol car at the time

3510
02:12:51,189 --> 02:12:49,280
you're not on duty right you know they

3511
02:12:54,069 --> 02:12:51,199
sort of come from all walks of life all

3512
02:12:56,310 --> 02:12:54,079
genders all ethnic origins

3513
02:12:57,510 --> 02:12:56,320
and these things happen and who do you

3514
02:13:00,069 --> 02:12:57,520
turn to

3515
02:13:01,350 --> 02:13:00,079
you know what advice exactly

3516
02:13:02,870 --> 02:13:01,360
one of the things that kept coming

3517
02:13:04,709 --> 02:13:02,880
through was jimmy well i've been to

3518
02:13:06,470 --> 02:13:04,719
seeing me down enough talk to my friends

3519
02:13:08,629 --> 02:13:06,480
and i went to the doctors there was

3520
02:13:10,470 --> 02:13:08,639
nobody to turn to and that's why they

3521
02:13:13,669 --> 02:13:10,480
ended up with people like me

3522
02:13:15,270 --> 02:13:13,679
and and what advice and i i asked this

3523
02:13:17,669 --> 02:13:15,280
of every

3524
02:13:20,069 --> 02:13:17,679
uh guest that i have on

3525
02:13:22,790 --> 02:13:20,079
with when it comes to abduction

3526
02:13:25,990 --> 02:13:22,800
uh because there are people listening to

3527
02:13:27,669 --> 02:13:26,000
us right now mr mantle that that

3528
02:13:31,350 --> 02:13:27,679
may

3529
02:13:33,270 --> 02:13:31,360
have concerns but they don't know

3530
02:13:35,669 --> 02:13:33,280
who to turn to they don't want to talk

3531
02:13:36,950 --> 02:13:35,679
about it i in my own experience and this

3532
02:13:39,270 --> 02:13:36,960
is the thing and i want people to

3533
02:13:41,990 --> 02:13:39,280
understand i talk about this a lot

3534
02:13:44,229 --> 02:13:42,000
but in my own experiences i've only had

3535
02:13:45,830 --> 02:13:44,239
a few in my life well i've seen

3536
02:13:47,669 --> 02:13:45,840
something in the sky you know a couple

3537
02:13:49,669 --> 02:13:47,679
of times maybe three times but you know

3538
02:13:53,270 --> 02:13:49,679
what i didn't do i didn't tell anybody

3539
02:13:55,830 --> 02:13:53,280
about it as as innocent as it was i you

3540
02:13:58,470 --> 02:13:55,840
know you just you don't bring this stuff

3541
02:14:00,950 --> 02:13:58,480
up and when it comes to abduction the

3542
02:14:03,350 --> 02:14:00,960
the last thing you know you want to do

3543
02:14:06,229 --> 02:14:03,360
is turn maybe even turn to your wife or

3544
02:14:07,910 --> 02:14:06,239
your husband or your family because

3545
02:14:10,069 --> 02:14:07,920
they're too close to you you don't want

3546
02:14:11,270 --> 02:14:10,079
them to think you're you know

3547
02:14:13,510 --> 02:14:11,280
bonkers

3548
02:14:16,629 --> 02:14:13,520
so they keep it inside what advice do

3549
02:14:18,870 --> 02:14:16,639
you give to somebody that may have a

3550
02:14:20,470 --> 02:14:18,880
concern i mean they need to talk to

3551
02:14:22,310 --> 02:14:20,480
somebody what did they do

3552
02:14:24,790 --> 02:14:22,320
well you mentioned one or two names on

3553
02:14:26,870 --> 02:14:24,800
there like yvonne smith for example that

3554
02:14:28,629 --> 02:14:26,880
i one there are a small number of people

3555
02:14:30,229 --> 02:14:28,639
that you can turn to

3556
02:14:32,310 --> 02:14:30,239
now and we're fortunate today in the

3557
02:14:33,830 --> 02:14:32,320
digital age that we can find out who

3558
02:14:36,149 --> 02:14:33,840
these people are

3559
02:14:38,069 --> 02:14:36,159
yvonne is is a perfect example of that

3560
02:14:40,390 --> 02:14:38,079
when i started there was no digital age

3561
02:14:42,550 --> 02:14:40,400
it was even more difficult right

3562
02:14:45,430 --> 02:14:42,560
so there are people you can turn to who

3563
02:14:46,709 --> 02:14:45,440
will treat you uh with respect and

3564
02:14:48,470 --> 02:14:46,719
compassion

3565
02:14:50,470 --> 02:14:48,480
and i fell with speaking to a lot of

3566
02:14:51,669 --> 02:14:50,480
these abductees they were just

3567
02:14:53,589 --> 02:14:51,679
grateful

3568
02:14:56,470 --> 02:14:53,599
that they could speak to somebody

3569
02:14:57,990 --> 02:14:56,480
without any fear of ridicule or fun or

3570
02:14:59,750 --> 02:14:58,000
whatever

3571
02:15:01,910 --> 02:14:59,760
and i just sat there and listened which

3572
02:15:03,750 --> 02:15:01,920
is is one of it's almost like counseling

3573
02:15:05,830 --> 02:15:03,760
somebody jimmy so you know from any

3574
02:15:09,270 --> 02:15:05,840
traumatic experience just to sit and

3575
02:15:11,189 --> 02:15:09,280
listen and nod your head and be there uh

3576
02:15:12,709 --> 02:15:11,199
and and that's what i found myself doing

3577
02:15:14,310 --> 02:15:12,719
i mean you know i i

3578
02:15:15,189 --> 02:15:14,320
you know ladies ring up and say and i'm

3579
02:15:19,189 --> 02:15:15,199
you know

3580
02:15:21,430 --> 02:15:19,199
i'm mental but i don't think any of that

3581
02:15:23,669 --> 02:15:21,440
and i will listen to you without passing

3582
02:15:26,149 --> 02:15:23,679
any judgment or any comment

3583
02:15:27,669 --> 02:15:26,159
and they're grateful for that there are

3584
02:15:29,669 --> 02:15:27,679
you know other individuals that are

3585
02:15:31,589 --> 02:15:29,679
organizations now that you know like bud

3586
02:15:34,550 --> 02:15:31,599
hopkins was a great pioneer in this work

3587
02:15:36,709 --> 02:15:34,560
there's dr david jacobs and others in in

3588
02:15:39,189 --> 02:15:36,719
the united states and they will keep

3589
02:15:41,990 --> 02:15:39,199
your details in complete confidence you

3590
02:15:43,669 --> 02:15:42,000
know and they are there if need be but

3591
02:15:45,350 --> 02:15:43,679
if you don't want to speak up and you

3592
02:15:47,669 --> 02:15:45,360
think it's something you can't deal with

3593
02:15:49,510 --> 02:15:47,679
then then fine you know you don't have

3594
02:15:51,109 --> 02:15:49,520
to there's no there's no pressure to do

3595
02:15:53,270 --> 02:15:51,119
that you don't you're not obliged to do

3596
02:15:54,390 --> 02:15:53,280
it and you know there's no force

3597
02:15:56,310 --> 02:15:54,400
and uh

3598
02:15:57,910 --> 02:15:56,320
again with with all these experiences

3599
02:15:59,669 --> 02:15:57,920
people deal with it in their own way to

3600
02:16:01,430 --> 02:15:59,679
me you know each individual is

3601
02:16:03,109 --> 02:16:01,440
completely different to the next one

3602
02:16:05,109 --> 02:16:03,119
some people think it's great you know

3603
02:16:07,109 --> 02:16:05,119
and i think it's you know it's it's it's

3604
02:16:09,109 --> 02:16:07,119
a unique experience and they want to

3605
02:16:11,350 --> 02:16:09,119
tell others about it others you know are

3606
02:16:12,390 --> 02:16:11,360
terrified by it and every emotion in

3607
02:16:14,470 --> 02:16:12,400
between

3608
02:16:16,390 --> 02:16:14,480
so i've tried to concentrate on the the

3609
02:16:19,910 --> 02:16:16,400
people themselves the emotion and to

3610
02:16:21,830 --> 02:16:19,920
show that whatever these experiences are

3611
02:16:24,950 --> 02:16:21,840
they can and do happen

3612
02:16:27,510 --> 02:16:24,960
to people around the world at any time

3613
02:16:29,030 --> 02:16:27,520
in any place you know

3614
02:16:30,390 --> 02:16:29,040
and we don't

3615
02:16:31,589 --> 02:16:30,400
understand them we're trying to get

3616
02:16:33,750 --> 02:16:31,599
extra groups with it and try and have a

3617
02:16:35,750 --> 02:16:33,760
bit of respect for these people you know

3618
02:16:37,669 --> 02:16:35,760
because more often than not jimmy they

3619
02:16:39,750 --> 02:16:37,679
have more to lose than they have to gain

3620
02:16:41,190 --> 02:16:39,760
by going on the record you know they

3621
02:16:43,030 --> 02:16:41,200
don't they're not there for the fame and

3622
02:16:44,469 --> 02:16:43,040
fortune you know

3623
02:16:48,230 --> 02:16:44,479
you know so treat them with a little bit

3624
02:16:50,950 --> 02:16:48,240
of respect um

3625
02:16:52,070 --> 02:16:50,960
i've got to pick your brain a little bit

3626
02:16:53,910 --> 02:16:52,080
uh

3627
02:16:55,990 --> 02:16:53,920
tell us about one of the cases that you

3628
02:16:57,589 --> 02:16:56,000
had to use that you referenced in the

3629
02:17:00,070 --> 02:16:57,599
book

3630
02:17:02,150 --> 02:17:00,080
well one of the main characters

3631
02:17:04,709 --> 02:17:02,160
is it is a real event

3632
02:17:07,270 --> 02:17:04,719
i i mean my fictitious family are called

3633
02:17:09,589 --> 02:17:07,280
the morrisons right

3634
02:17:11,349 --> 02:17:09,599
but actually based on a chap called john

3635
02:17:13,910 --> 02:17:11,359
day and his wife sue

3636
02:17:16,309 --> 02:17:13,920
back in the 1970s

3637
02:17:18,950 --> 02:17:16,319
were traveling with their two children

3638
02:17:20,709 --> 02:17:18,960
at a place called avery in essex not

3639
02:17:22,549 --> 02:17:20,719
that far from london you know certainly

3640
02:17:25,030 --> 02:17:22,559
not the middle of nowhere they've been

3641
02:17:27,270 --> 02:17:25,040
to visit the family they were driving

3642
02:17:28,709 --> 02:17:27,280
back back home

3643
02:17:30,790 --> 02:17:28,719
john wanted to get home to watch a

3644
02:17:33,110 --> 02:17:30,800
particular television program on

3645
02:17:35,429 --> 02:17:33,120
entering the village they entered a bank

3646
02:17:37,669 --> 02:17:35,439
of green mist

3647
02:17:40,070 --> 02:17:37,679
and he remembers the most peculiar thing

3648
02:17:42,629 --> 02:17:40,080
that the car radio started to play up

3649
02:17:44,629 --> 02:17:42,639
his wife turned to him and said i looked

3650
02:17:45,589 --> 02:17:44,639
in the back seat and said are you all

3651
02:17:49,429 --> 02:17:45,599
here

3652
02:17:51,270 --> 02:17:49,439
and they pulled into the village they

3653
02:17:53,110 --> 02:17:51,280
automatically noticed that there was a

3654
02:17:55,429 --> 02:17:53,120
period of missing time because the tv

3655
02:17:57,190 --> 02:17:55,439
show wasn't on it had gone

3656
02:17:59,030 --> 02:17:57,200
this was the day when the you know when

3657
02:18:01,030 --> 02:17:59,040
the tv used to finish at a certain time

3658
02:18:02,629 --> 02:18:01,040
of the evening right you know didn't run

3659
02:18:03,509 --> 02:18:02,639
all night right

3660
02:18:06,150 --> 02:18:03,519
and

3661
02:18:07,830 --> 02:18:06,160
you know it perturbed john then remember

3662
02:18:09,429 --> 02:18:07,840
i'm putting a long story very short both

3663
02:18:11,990 --> 02:18:09,439
him and his wife

3664
02:18:14,389 --> 02:18:12,000
been taken up into this vehicle

3665
02:18:16,469 --> 02:18:14,399
the bit that the about the bump was that

3666
02:18:17,750 --> 02:18:16,479
they weren't taking themselves the whole

3667
02:18:18,790 --> 02:18:17,760
car was

3668
02:18:20,629 --> 02:18:18,800
and when it

3669
02:18:22,150 --> 02:18:20,639
hit the road it was when they felt the

3670
02:18:23,830 --> 02:18:22,160
bump and she turned around and said are

3671
02:18:25,509 --> 02:18:23,840
they all here to making sure the

3672
02:18:27,429 --> 02:18:25,519
children were there oh that's

3673
02:18:29,270 --> 02:18:27,439
interesting that's interesting

3674
02:18:31,669 --> 02:18:29,280
yeah so you know i'm one of the few

3675
02:18:33,349 --> 02:18:31,679
people to interview john uh about but he

3676
02:18:34,870 --> 02:18:33,359
made a great impression on man

3677
02:18:36,629 --> 02:18:34,880
and and i'll i'll leave you this thought

3678
02:18:38,549 --> 02:18:36,639
on abduction it's something john said to

3679
02:18:41,190 --> 02:18:38,559
me i asked him i said john

3680
02:18:44,070 --> 02:18:41,200
is this a physical reality i was talking

3681
02:18:46,070 --> 02:18:44,080
about you know a physical phenomena here

3682
02:18:47,910 --> 02:18:46,080
he said well philippines says we as a as

3683
02:18:50,309 --> 02:18:47,920
a species don't have the words in our

3684
02:18:52,389 --> 02:18:50,319
vocabulary to explain this but this is

3685
02:18:55,349 --> 02:18:52,399
the only way i can explain it to you is

3686
02:18:57,509 --> 02:18:55,359
if you visit a film set you know a movie

3687
02:18:59,669 --> 02:18:57,519
set you can touch it you can feel it you

3688
02:19:01,589 --> 02:18:59,679
can knock on it and it's real

3689
02:19:02,629 --> 02:19:01,599
but you look behind it and it's just an

3690
02:19:05,110 --> 02:19:02,639
illusion

3691
02:19:07,349 --> 02:19:05,120
now you make of that what you will jimmy

3692
02:19:09,110 --> 02:19:07,359
you know and that was the best way that

3693
02:19:10,150 --> 02:19:09,120
john could could it could explain that

3694
02:19:11,750 --> 02:19:10,160
to me

3695
02:19:14,070 --> 02:19:11,760
and and you know

3696
02:19:15,830 --> 02:19:14,080
take it from there you know

3697
02:19:17,509 --> 02:19:15,840
that's uh

3698
02:19:19,589 --> 02:19:17,519
that's actually deep

3699
02:19:20,950 --> 02:19:19,599
it is it's very deep

3700
02:19:22,709 --> 02:19:20,960
and i'll never forget that you know

3701
02:19:24,469 --> 02:19:22,719
never they made up the exact words but

3702
02:19:26,549 --> 02:19:24,479
that is exactly what he said you know

3703
02:19:28,469 --> 02:19:26,559
and what what was your

3704
02:19:29,270 --> 02:19:28,479
what's your interpretation of that i

3705
02:19:30,709 --> 02:19:29,280
mean

3706
02:19:32,070 --> 02:19:30,719
i don't have one i'm still trying to

3707
02:19:33,669 --> 02:19:32,080
figure it out

3708
02:19:35,270 --> 02:19:33,679
you know because you go speak to the

3709
02:19:37,270 --> 02:19:35,280
next person and they said no it's

3710
02:19:39,990 --> 02:19:37,280
nothing like that philip it was to me it

3711
02:19:42,070 --> 02:19:40,000
was spiritual so that was john's

3712
02:19:43,910 --> 02:19:42,080
interpretation of it but it really made

3713
02:19:44,790 --> 02:19:43,920
an effect on me it really stuck in my

3714
02:19:46,469 --> 02:19:44,800
mind

3715
02:19:48,790 --> 02:19:46,479
and sometimes when you speak to these

3716
02:19:51,030 --> 02:19:48,800
people jimmy it's not what they say it's

3717
02:19:52,950 --> 02:19:51,040
not what they tell you their experience

3718
02:19:54,870 --> 02:19:52,960
it's the people themselves and how it's

3719
02:19:57,429 --> 02:19:54,880
affected them afterwards that makes the

3720
02:19:59,190 --> 02:19:57,439
greatest impression on you rather than

3721
02:20:00,950 --> 02:19:59,200
you know what the the beings looked like

3722
02:20:02,469 --> 02:20:00,960
or the ufo looked like that's right

3723
02:20:04,950 --> 02:20:02,479
that's right that's right that's right

3724
02:20:07,190 --> 02:20:04,960
it's the after defect so to speak wow

3725
02:20:08,710 --> 02:20:07,200
and john made a great impression well

3726
02:20:10,389 --> 02:20:08,720
with with me

3727
02:20:11,830 --> 02:20:10,399
uh

3728
02:20:13,830 --> 02:20:11,840
i've

3729
02:20:15,990 --> 02:20:13,840
in the last week or so i don't want to

3730
02:20:18,070 --> 02:20:16,000
sound like i'm i'm at a loss for words

3731
02:20:19,110 --> 02:20:18,080
but that i have a lot to get out on this

3732
02:20:21,670 --> 02:20:19,120
subject

3733
02:20:23,910 --> 02:20:21,680
uh but in the last couple of weeks

3734
02:20:25,270 --> 02:20:23,920
uh well about a month ago i interviewed

3735
02:20:28,790 --> 02:20:25,280
travis walton

3736
02:20:31,030 --> 02:20:28,800
and the thing about travis that it's not

3737
02:20:33,429 --> 02:20:31,040
to me the

3738
02:20:35,110 --> 02:20:33,439
the sensationalism of fire in the sky

3739
02:20:37,429 --> 02:20:35,120
because it is a great movie it's a

3740
02:20:39,190 --> 02:20:37,439
terrifying movie and if if the story

3741
02:20:41,270 --> 02:20:39,200
didn't happen and it was just a movie

3742
02:20:44,790 --> 02:20:41,280
it's still a great movie love it right

3743
02:20:46,070 --> 02:20:44,800
okay awesome but when you talk to travis

3744
02:20:51,110 --> 02:20:46,080
it's not

3745
02:20:53,349 --> 02:20:51,120
that that everybody tends to focus on

3746
02:20:56,150 --> 02:20:53,359
and want him to talk about it's travis

3747
02:20:58,870 --> 02:20:56,160
walton the man you know this is a guy

3748
02:21:02,870 --> 02:20:58,880
that has gone through uh the most

3749
02:21:05,670 --> 02:21:02,880
traumatic of traumatic experiences and i

3750
02:21:06,950 --> 02:21:05,680
not only is he sincere but when you talk

3751
02:21:08,070 --> 02:21:06,960
to him

3752
02:21:15,510 --> 02:21:08,080
you

3753
02:21:17,270 --> 02:21:15,520
how traumatic of experience uh that he

3754
02:21:18,790 --> 02:21:17,280
actually went through

3755
02:21:20,150 --> 02:21:18,800
absolutely i mean i've met travis a

3756
02:21:21,990 --> 02:21:20,160
couple of times

3757
02:21:23,510 --> 02:21:22,000
and i've been shot

3758
02:21:25,510 --> 02:21:23,520
fortunate to share the platform and a

3759
02:21:27,990 --> 02:21:25,520
couple of conferences with him and it's

3760
02:21:30,070 --> 02:21:28,000
exactly the same and i've seen travis

3761
02:21:33,110 --> 02:21:30,080
been grilled by the by the news media as

3762
02:21:34,710 --> 02:21:33,120
well and you know and and if you if

3763
02:21:36,230 --> 02:21:34,720
those that say oh it's all a fake and

3764
02:21:39,190 --> 02:21:36,240
well you have to say well where's the

3765
02:21:41,510 --> 02:21:39,200
motive right you know travis still works

3766
02:21:43,110 --> 02:21:41,520
as a foreman at the logging company

3767
02:21:45,349 --> 02:21:43,120
that's right you know he doesn't live in

3768
02:21:46,710 --> 02:21:45,359
a mansion that's right he made a bit of

3769
02:21:48,710 --> 02:21:46,720
money from the film but they're getting

3770
02:21:50,870 --> 02:21:48,720
no no great shakes

3771
02:21:53,030 --> 02:21:50,880
uh where's the motive i mean there isn't

3772
02:21:54,469 --> 02:21:53,040
one you know and the others that were

3773
02:21:56,790 --> 02:21:54,479
there that evening they've all gone on

3774
02:21:58,950 --> 02:21:56,800
the record i know steve pearce is what

3775
02:22:00,710 --> 02:21:58,960
was spoken up in in the last year or so

3776
02:22:02,710 --> 02:22:00,720
one of the guys that was there

3777
02:22:04,630 --> 02:22:02,720
and i've communicated with steve but

3778
02:22:07,110 --> 02:22:04,640
yeah so you can see the look on travis's

3779
02:22:08,710 --> 02:22:07,120
face you know it's it

3780
02:22:09,429 --> 02:22:08,720
and that's the difference

3781
02:22:11,830 --> 02:22:09,439
um

3782
02:22:13,910 --> 02:22:11,840
it's not scientific jimmy there was

3783
02:22:16,630 --> 02:22:13,920
experiments done years ago on where they

3784
02:22:18,469 --> 02:22:16,640
invented fictitious abductees you know

3785
02:22:20,389 --> 02:22:18,479
and they came out with a story but the

3786
02:22:23,510 --> 02:22:20,399
thing that was missing was the emotional

3787
02:22:25,349 --> 02:22:23,520
content exactly exactly and you see it

3788
02:22:26,950 --> 02:22:25,359
all over travis's face when you talk to

3789
02:22:28,950 --> 02:22:26,960
him about it you know and you can see

3790
02:22:30,630 --> 02:22:28,960
him going back in time almost thinking i

3791
02:22:33,110 --> 02:22:30,640
wish that god this has never happened

3792
02:22:34,870 --> 02:22:33,120
exactly you know and and i had said to

3793
02:22:36,469 --> 02:22:34,880
travis he uh

3794
02:22:37,750 --> 02:22:36,479
when we were setting up for the

3795
02:22:39,670 --> 02:22:37,760
interview

3796
02:22:42,070 --> 02:22:39,680
uh where you know we were talking on the

3797
02:22:43,270 --> 02:22:42,080
phone and had a few conversations he you

3798
02:22:45,590 --> 02:22:43,280
know he said jimmy you know what

3799
02:22:48,790 --> 02:22:45,600
honestly it's been 38 years

3800
02:22:51,110 --> 02:22:48,800
i just can't emotionally tell this story

3801
02:22:52,710 --> 02:22:51,120
again i can't do it it just rips me

3802
02:22:55,750 --> 02:22:52,720
apart i said travis

3803
02:22:58,309 --> 02:22:55,760
let's talk about something else

3804
02:23:00,550 --> 02:22:58,319
it's okay he goes is that all right do i

3805
02:23:02,630 --> 02:23:00,560
i don't have to go minute by minute of

3806
02:23:05,030 --> 02:23:02,640
what they did i said no

3807
02:23:06,550 --> 02:23:05,040
no there's surely things that you've

3808
02:23:07,750 --> 02:23:06,560
never talked about at all he goes

3809
02:23:09,990 --> 02:23:07,760
there's

3810
02:23:12,550 --> 02:23:10,000
so much i want to talk about i said you

3811
02:23:14,389 --> 02:23:12,560
know what let's just go go on i'll let

3812
02:23:15,670 --> 02:23:14,399
you

3813
02:23:16,630 --> 02:23:15,680
interview me

3814
02:23:22,230 --> 02:23:16,640
you

3815
02:23:24,710 --> 02:23:22,240
the chance go back and listen to that

3816
02:23:27,750 --> 02:23:24,720
travis walton interview because he talks

3817
02:23:29,670 --> 02:23:27,760
about everything book his book is he's

3818
02:23:32,230 --> 02:23:29,680
absolutely stunning yeah

3819
02:23:34,870 --> 02:23:32,240
it really is it's an amazing book and

3820
02:23:36,469 --> 02:23:34,880
and i understand why the movie was made

3821
02:23:39,429 --> 02:23:36,479
the way it was because it's hollywood

3822
02:23:43,030 --> 02:23:39,439
that's fine and it it on its own merits

3823
02:23:45,670 --> 02:23:43,040
the movie is a great movie but travis uh

3824
02:23:48,469 --> 02:23:45,680
commented to me uh after the show the

3825
02:23:51,349 --> 02:23:48,479
next day he said you know and this goes

3826
02:23:53,830 --> 02:23:51,359
back to your point phillip he said jimmy

3827
02:23:56,870 --> 02:23:53,840
after 38 years this is this is the first

3828
02:23:59,990 --> 02:23:56,880
time that i've felt good about an

3829
02:24:01,270 --> 02:24:00,000
interview thank you um and and you know

3830
02:24:02,950 --> 02:24:01,280
he went on to say some other things

3831
02:24:06,389 --> 02:24:02,960
those were private but

3832
02:24:08,150 --> 02:24:06,399
i just gave him the opportunity to just

3833
02:24:10,389 --> 02:24:08,160
talk and not

3834
02:24:13,110 --> 02:24:10,399
grill him and not try to pin him in the

3835
02:24:16,070 --> 02:24:13,120
corner and not any of that i wanted to

3836
02:24:18,630 --> 02:24:16,080
know how are you doing today emotionally

3837
02:24:20,950 --> 02:24:18,640
now that it's 38 years that you have to

3838
02:24:23,510 --> 02:24:20,960
look back at this how do you feel now

3839
02:24:25,510 --> 02:24:23,520
why did they do this you know why you

3840
02:24:27,590 --> 02:24:25,520
know there was all of these other things

3841
02:24:29,830 --> 02:24:27,600
that he had never talked about and he

3842
02:24:31,270 --> 02:24:29,840
needed to get it off his chest

3843
02:24:32,389 --> 02:24:31,280
yeah i was like we mentioned about 10

3844
02:24:33,990 --> 02:24:32,399
minutes ago one other thing with

3845
02:24:35,670 --> 02:24:34,000
abductees they're just grateful if

3846
02:24:37,429 --> 02:24:35,680
you'll sit there and i'll let them talk

3847
02:24:39,429 --> 02:24:37,439
therapy yeah without asking daft

3848
02:24:41,670 --> 02:24:39,439
questions just let them talk yes and

3849
02:24:43,670 --> 02:24:41,680
they're grateful for that you know but

3850
02:24:46,790 --> 02:24:43,680
also i i mean i've seen a young man down

3851
02:24:48,870 --> 02:24:46,800
in wales whom i interviewed absolutely

3852
02:24:50,550 --> 02:24:48,880
terrified and i mean this was a tough

3853
02:24:53,190 --> 02:24:50,560
young guy who liked his rock music and

3854
02:24:56,070 --> 02:24:53,200
his long hair he was shaking and he had

3855
02:24:59,030 --> 02:24:56,080
to have uh hypnotherapy not not

3856
02:25:01,190 --> 02:24:59,040
regressive hypnosis hypnotherapy to

3857
02:25:03,110 --> 02:25:01,200
relieve the nightmares and now he's

3858
02:25:06,230 --> 02:25:03,120
featured in my first book and i sent him

3859
02:25:08,710 --> 02:25:06,240
a copy he didn't read it for four years

3860
02:25:10,630 --> 02:25:08,720
jimmy four years later he came back to

3861
02:25:11,750 --> 02:25:10,640
me he then sits married and got his own

3862
02:25:14,070 --> 02:25:11,760
children

3863
02:25:15,590 --> 02:25:14,080
but it just terrified the living

3864
02:25:17,510 --> 02:25:15,600
daylights out of him

3865
02:25:20,710 --> 02:25:17,520
when uh

3866
02:25:22,389 --> 02:25:20,720
i had moved into a house in pasadena

3867
02:25:24,630 --> 02:25:22,399
years you know 30 years ago when i first

3868
02:25:26,070 --> 02:25:24,640
moved to california i'm a young guy i'm

3869
02:25:28,790 --> 02:25:26,080
in my 20s

3870
02:25:30,309 --> 02:25:28,800
and the house is empty

3871
02:25:32,630 --> 02:25:30,319
but

3872
02:25:34,070 --> 02:25:32,640
what i mean empty there was no i

3873
02:25:36,630 --> 02:25:34,080
at that time i didn't even own any

3874
02:25:38,630 --> 02:25:36,640
furniture you know i had like a suitcase

3875
02:25:40,550 --> 02:25:38,640
i move into this five bedroom house in

3876
02:25:41,910 --> 02:25:40,560
pasadena and there's

3877
02:25:45,590 --> 02:25:41,920
nothing

3878
02:25:47,190 --> 02:25:45,600
in the house completely empty so i kind

3879
02:25:48,790 --> 02:25:47,200
of you know i wander through there's

3880
02:25:52,150 --> 02:25:48,800
five bedrooms and i'm picking out a

3881
02:25:53,590 --> 02:25:52,160
bedroom that is going to be mine and and

3882
02:25:54,870 --> 02:25:53,600
i kind of put my suitcase in there and

3883
02:25:57,910 --> 02:25:54,880
i'm walking through the other bedroom

3884
02:25:59,750 --> 02:25:57,920
and i find on this bookshelf i mean on a

3885
02:26:02,790 --> 02:25:59,760
shelf in a closet

3886
02:26:07,429 --> 02:26:02,800
two paperback books that were stuck in

3887
02:26:09,190 --> 02:26:07,439
the back of the uh uh it was just weird

3888
02:26:10,870 --> 02:26:09,200
the whole house is empty except for

3889
02:26:13,429 --> 02:26:10,880
these two paperback books so i pull them

3890
02:26:15,030 --> 02:26:13,439
down i got nothing to do i have no tv i

3891
02:26:16,950 --> 02:26:15,040
have no stereo i have no nothing to have

3892
02:26:19,429 --> 02:26:16,960
an empty house but boom i got a couple

3893
02:26:23,030 --> 02:26:19,439
paperback books one of them was the

3894
02:26:31,030 --> 02:26:27,030
and i sit and i read that

3895
02:26:32,870 --> 02:26:31,040
and i read that book probably in about

3896
02:26:36,870 --> 02:26:32,880
24 hours

3897
02:26:38,870 --> 02:26:36,880
and by the time i put that book down i i

3898
02:26:41,670 --> 02:26:38,880
i was terrified

3899
02:26:43,910 --> 02:26:41,680
and and and and because it's exactly

3900
02:26:45,349 --> 02:26:43,920
what you you're saying now about that

3901
02:26:48,710 --> 02:26:45,359
young man in wales

3902
02:26:51,030 --> 02:26:48,720
is that the experience itself

3903
02:26:54,070 --> 02:26:51,040
taken at face value is about as

3904
02:26:57,349 --> 02:26:54,080
terrifying as an experience as anybody

3905
02:26:58,950 --> 02:26:57,359
can go through the book freaked me out i

3906
02:27:00,070 --> 02:26:58,960
can't imagine

3907
02:27:01,270 --> 02:27:00,080
um

3908
02:27:02,710 --> 02:27:01,280
uh

3909
02:27:04,710 --> 02:27:02,720
and the other book there was two by the

3910
02:27:07,590 --> 02:27:04,720
way and the other one was the andreessen

3911
02:27:11,590 --> 02:27:09,349
this one guy was called david i mean i

3912
02:27:14,550 --> 02:27:11,600
sat outside in the sunshine which is

3913
02:27:16,150 --> 02:27:14,560
rare for wales you know sunshine right

3914
02:27:18,550 --> 02:27:16,160
and we talked about his job his

3915
02:27:20,389 --> 02:27:18,560
girlfriend his friends just like any

3916
02:27:22,710 --> 02:27:20,399
young guy with long hair and he said

3917
02:27:24,389 --> 02:27:22,720
he's hanging maiden t-shirt on and as

3918
02:27:26,550 --> 02:27:24,399
soon as we tell us to talk about this

3919
02:27:29,270 --> 02:27:26,560
subject he's holding me in a change he

3920
02:27:31,349 --> 02:27:29,280
started to chain smoke he became nervous

3921
02:27:33,190 --> 02:27:31,359
and i was a bit inexperienced at the

3922
02:27:35,110 --> 02:27:33,200
time i have to be honest and he was

3923
02:27:37,270 --> 02:27:35,120
petrified i didn't realize it to begin

3924
02:27:38,389 --> 02:27:37,280
with and i i took him back to the site

3925
02:27:40,230 --> 02:27:38,399
where it happened and i took a

3926
02:27:42,230 --> 02:27:40,240
photograph of him

3927
02:27:44,630 --> 02:27:42,240
at the site and it's only when i had the

3928
02:27:46,469 --> 02:27:44,640
film developed i realized how scared he

3929
02:27:48,309 --> 02:27:46,479
was he stood there like a blanket would

3930
02:27:50,309 --> 02:27:48,319
he did not want to be there

3931
02:27:52,550 --> 02:27:50,319
and uh but like i said it's the it's

3932
02:27:54,150 --> 02:27:52,560
it's what happens to these people hence

3933
02:27:56,469 --> 02:27:54,160
going back to my novel that's what i

3934
02:27:58,790 --> 02:27:56,479
concentrate on not the event but the

3935
02:28:00,230 --> 02:27:58,800
people themselves you know

3936
02:28:02,150 --> 02:28:00,240
and you know it's just another way of

3937
02:28:04,469 --> 02:28:02,160
telling the story but hopefully telling

3938
02:28:07,110 --> 02:28:04,479
it in a in a different light jimmy well

3939
02:28:09,349 --> 02:28:07,120
you know i i i so thank you for coming

3940
02:28:10,550 --> 02:28:09,359
on and this is

3941
02:28:13,030 --> 02:28:10,560
uh

3942
02:28:15,750 --> 02:28:13,040
this week on on the show

3943
02:28:19,510 --> 02:28:15,760
uh yesterday we had on stephen greer

3944
02:28:23,910 --> 02:28:19,520
today at you tomorrow uh is leslie keane

3945
02:28:26,710 --> 02:28:23,920
and it's this level of uh of guests that

3946
02:28:28,630 --> 02:28:26,720
uh our fans out there the art bell crowd

3947
02:28:30,790 --> 02:28:28,640
expects from this show

3948
02:28:32,070 --> 02:28:30,800
and i just can't thank you enough uh

3949
02:28:33,990 --> 02:28:32,080
this is this is one of the best

3950
02:28:35,910 --> 02:28:34,000
conversations i've ever had

3951
02:28:37,510 --> 02:28:35,920
it's my pleasure i can assure you and

3952
02:28:39,750 --> 02:28:37,520
what's up what's in the quick future for

3953
02:28:41,510 --> 02:28:39,760
you what are you doing besides editing

3954
02:28:42,870 --> 02:28:41,520
and doing everything else and writing

3955
02:28:44,309 --> 02:28:42,880
but uh do you got anything else that

3956
02:28:45,990 --> 02:28:44,319
you're working on or

3957
02:28:48,230 --> 02:28:46,000
are you going to be speaking

3958
02:28:50,389 --> 02:28:48,240
no i'm i mean i'm working on a book with

3959
02:28:53,910 --> 02:28:50,399
my my colleague paul stonehill we've

3960
02:28:55,190 --> 02:28:53,920
done um books on ufos in russia before

3961
02:28:57,750 --> 02:28:55,200
because paul is originally from the

3962
02:28:58,790 --> 02:28:57,760
ukraine but he lives in in the united

3963
02:29:01,190 --> 02:28:58,800
states

3964
02:29:02,630 --> 02:29:01,200
um not far from los angeles and we're

3965
02:29:05,590 --> 02:29:02,640
doing a follow-up to that so that's in

3966
02:29:07,830 --> 02:29:05,600
the pipeline for later this year um the

3967
02:29:09,670 --> 02:29:07,840
alien autopsy book roswell alien autopsy

3968
02:29:12,230 --> 02:29:09,680
believe it or not has been adapted into

3969
02:29:15,270 --> 02:29:12,240
a screenplay which we're trying to sell

3970
02:29:17,830 --> 02:29:15,280
oh but we're not having a look yet and

3971
02:29:19,910 --> 02:29:17,840
um similarly once upon a missing time

3972
02:29:23,910 --> 02:29:19,920
has been adapted into a screenplay

3973
02:29:25,670 --> 02:29:23,920
simply called missing time and again

3974
02:29:27,270 --> 02:29:25,680
we're looking to try and uh see if we

3975
02:29:29,830 --> 02:29:27,280
can get some interest in that so it's a

3976
02:29:32,150 --> 02:29:29,840
long journey with those two projects but

3977
02:29:34,550 --> 02:29:32,160
we are hopeful so again it's just

3978
02:29:37,030 --> 02:29:34,560
another way of telling the story are you

3979
02:29:41,429 --> 02:29:37,040
gonna add filmmaker to to your resume

3980
02:29:42,790 --> 02:29:41,439
then apparently what it's all not at all

3981
02:29:44,790 --> 02:29:42,800
i really want to thank you for coming

3982
02:29:47,830 --> 02:29:44,800
out now listen i am i'm inviting you

3983
02:29:49,990 --> 02:29:47,840
back officially i i wanna uh we're doing

3984
02:29:53,190 --> 02:29:50,000
a couple of things over this next month

3985
02:29:55,030 --> 02:29:53,200
uh one of them your uh your friend uh

3986
02:29:57,750 --> 02:29:55,040
richard dolan i think i mentioned this

3987
02:29:59,990 --> 02:29:57,760
to you he's coming out this month uh or

3988
02:30:02,950 --> 02:30:00,000
i'm sorry february 18th and we're going

3989
02:30:05,750 --> 02:30:02,960
to actually live broadcast the show as

3990
02:30:07,830 --> 02:30:05,760
he releases his book here in the united

3991
02:30:09,750 --> 02:30:07,840
states and it's going to be at a venue

3992
02:30:11,910 --> 02:30:09,760
it's going to be awesome i i don't think

3993
02:30:13,750 --> 02:30:11,920
anybody's ever done this before

3994
02:30:17,429 --> 02:30:13,760
but uh so we're going to get that behind

3995
02:30:19,349 --> 02:30:17,439
us but next month i want to uh i want to

3996
02:30:20,550 --> 02:30:19,359
bring you back on i want to talk about

3997
02:30:29,190 --> 02:30:20,560
russia

3998
02:30:31,750 --> 02:30:29,200
as far as ufology goes yeah okay you can

3999
02:30:35,670 --> 02:30:31,760
go to youtube and and see what you will

4000
02:30:37,590 --> 02:30:35,680
but i it's it's it's overlooked and i

4001
02:30:39,190 --> 02:30:37,600
know you concur

4002
02:30:41,349 --> 02:30:39,200
absolutely i mean it's you know what

4003
02:30:43,110 --> 02:30:41,359
what we know about the things in russia

4004
02:30:46,070 --> 02:30:43,120
is the tip of the iceberg quite

4005
02:30:48,070 --> 02:30:46,080
literally um i'm fortunate that paul was

4006
02:30:50,710 --> 02:30:48,080
originally from the ukraine so he speaks

4007
02:30:52,550 --> 02:30:50,720
and reads and writes the language um so

4008
02:30:54,469 --> 02:30:52,560
that helps enormously

4009
02:30:55,429 --> 02:30:54,479
i don't take much notice of youtube

4010
02:30:57,910 --> 02:30:55,439
anyway

4011
02:30:59,670 --> 02:30:57,920
and um you know we're grateful for our

4012
02:31:03,590 --> 02:30:59,680
contacts that we have in in the former

4013
02:31:05,429 --> 02:31:03,600
soviet union which we have used to to

4014
02:31:07,990 --> 02:31:05,439
you know on many occasions we're in

4015
02:31:10,150 --> 02:31:08,000
regular contact with them and um you

4016
02:31:12,469 --> 02:31:10,160
know i know richard is published in our

4017
02:31:14,389 --> 02:31:12,479
next book so i'm sure he'll do well when

4018
02:31:16,550 --> 02:31:14,399
you do the live broadcast

4019
02:31:18,469 --> 02:31:16,560
and i wish you well with it i'll gladly

4020
02:31:20,790 --> 02:31:18,479
come back and speak anytime jimmy yeah

4021
02:31:22,630 --> 02:31:20,800
absolutely and uh i i do want you to

4022
02:31:24,630 --> 02:31:22,640
come back and we'll spend some time on

4023
02:31:27,030 --> 02:31:24,640
on the this russian subject and you're

4024
02:31:29,750 --> 02:31:27,040
an expert so i would really appreciate

4025
02:31:31,349 --> 02:31:29,760
that so the invitation is open and we'll

4026
02:31:32,389 --> 02:31:31,359
get that you know sometime in march if

4027
02:31:34,710 --> 02:31:32,399
that's okay

4028
02:31:35,750 --> 02:31:34,720
that'll be great philamento mr philip

4029
02:31:37,590 --> 02:31:35,760
mantel

4030
02:31:40,469 --> 02:31:37,600
thank you for coming on the show this is

4031
02:31:42,389 --> 02:31:40,479
fade to black and phil paula shoot you

4032
02:31:44,469 --> 02:31:42,399
an email tomorrow thank you very much

4033
02:31:46,870 --> 02:31:44,479
my pleasure jimmy all right fade to

4034
02:32:07,429 --> 02:31:46,880
black we will be back after this on the

4035
02:32:07,439 --> 02:32:12,950
my name is alan i listen to jimmy

4036
02:32:17,429 --> 02:32:15,349
he's always giving it to you straight

4037
02:32:21,510 --> 02:32:17,439
jimmychurchradio.com

4038
02:32:23,510 --> 02:32:21,520
on the dark matter radio network

4039
02:32:28,150 --> 02:32:23,520
hi this is rob reiner from anvil and

4040
02:32:31,750 --> 02:32:29,910
what's up i'm chris what up this is kyle

4041
02:32:45,030 --> 02:32:31,760
matson you're listening to jimmy church

4042
02:32:45,040 --> 02:32:48,309
all right everybody welcome back

4043
02:32:52,870 --> 02:32:51,429
fade to black i am your host

4044
02:32:55,270 --> 02:32:52,880
jimmy church

4045
02:32:59,030 --> 02:32:55,280
kjcr

4046
02:33:03,670 --> 02:33:02,309
on the dark matter radio network

4047
02:33:05,429 --> 02:33:03,680
thursday

4048
02:33:07,030 --> 02:33:05,439
thank you phillip mantle that was

4049
02:33:08,389 --> 02:33:07,040
amazing

4050
02:33:12,309 --> 02:33:08,399
and

4051
02:33:13,270 --> 02:33:12,319
again i i just have to say this that is

4052
02:33:14,950 --> 02:33:13,280
why

4053
02:33:17,030 --> 02:33:14,960
i do radio

4054
02:33:18,950 --> 02:33:17,040
right there

4055
02:33:20,550 --> 02:33:18,960
you go and you learn something you just

4056
02:33:21,910 --> 02:33:20,560
hang out

4057
02:33:23,910 --> 02:33:21,920
you know

4058
02:33:26,230 --> 02:33:23,920
you're in your room it's dark you've got

4059
02:33:28,710 --> 02:33:26,240
your ipad crank it up

4060
02:33:30,389 --> 02:33:28,720
set it on the nightstand close your eyes

4061
02:33:34,389 --> 02:33:30,399
and just listen

4062
02:33:35,910 --> 02:33:34,399
and trip out and that is why i do radio

4063
02:33:38,070 --> 02:33:35,920
right there

4064
02:33:39,270 --> 02:33:38,080
i almost oh somebody asked me the other

4065
02:33:41,910 --> 02:33:39,280
day

4066
02:33:43,429 --> 02:33:41,920
do you ever go back and listen to

4067
02:33:44,950 --> 02:33:43,439
previous shows

4068
02:33:47,110 --> 02:33:44,960
and i don't

4069
02:33:48,950 --> 02:33:47,120
i just don't do it i have no idea you

4070
02:33:49,910 --> 02:33:48,960
know we do three hours live bam it's

4071
02:33:52,230 --> 02:33:49,920
over

4072
02:33:54,710 --> 02:33:52,240
and you know you move on you you know go

4073
02:33:56,710 --> 02:33:54,720
hang out the forums and answer email and

4074
02:33:58,710 --> 02:33:56,720
and do that kind of stuff but i don't go

4075
02:34:00,870 --> 02:33:58,720
back and listen to the shows

4076
02:34:03,510 --> 02:34:00,880
and i forget

4077
02:34:05,510 --> 02:34:03,520
90 of

4078
02:34:07,830 --> 02:34:05,520
more like 99

4079
02:34:10,790 --> 02:34:07,840
percent of what i've what i said i i

4080
02:34:13,830 --> 02:34:10,800
just don't remember but i this show

4081
02:34:16,790 --> 02:34:13,840
i just may go back and listen to

4082
02:34:19,510 --> 02:34:16,800
that was uh that was amazing now uh we

4083
02:34:21,429 --> 02:34:19,520
were talking um the team here we're

4084
02:34:23,990 --> 02:34:21,439
having a production meeting and one of

4085
02:34:26,070 --> 02:34:24,000
the things that came up is

4086
02:34:27,830 --> 02:34:26,080
famous hoaxes

4087
02:34:29,590 --> 02:34:27,840
so what i i think

4088
02:34:33,030 --> 02:34:29,600
i think we came to the conclusion that

4089
02:34:34,630 --> 02:34:33,040
we want to do maybe a show a week

4090
02:34:35,990 --> 02:34:34,640
and shoot me an email and let me know

4091
02:34:37,190 --> 02:34:36,000
what you think about this but we're

4092
02:34:39,349 --> 02:34:37,200
thinking about

4093
02:34:42,469 --> 02:34:39,359
doing a hoax just

4094
02:34:44,469 --> 02:34:42,479
a hoax show once a week because it's a

4095
02:34:47,429 --> 02:34:44,479
fascinating subject

4096
02:34:50,309 --> 02:34:47,439
you go and you bust the culprits and

4097
02:34:52,309 --> 02:34:50,319
and you just unravel stuff and so what

4098
02:34:55,990 --> 02:34:52,319
what came to mind was this

4099
02:34:57,030 --> 02:34:56,000
there was and again shoot me an email if

4100
02:34:58,710 --> 02:34:57,040
you have

4101
02:35:01,270 --> 02:34:58,720
any information if you remember this

4102
02:35:04,389 --> 02:35:01,280
hoax but there was

4103
02:35:07,110 --> 02:35:04,399
in the mid 90s i haven't done any

4104
02:35:09,190 --> 02:35:07,120
research on it uh to

4105
02:35:12,550 --> 02:35:09,200
to remember stuff but

4106
02:35:14,790 --> 02:35:12,560
i think it was called acc the american

4107
02:35:16,630 --> 02:35:14,800
computer corporation

4108
02:35:25,750 --> 02:35:16,640
and

4109
02:35:27,590 --> 02:35:25,760
have been even maybe before 94 or 95.

4110
02:35:28,790 --> 02:35:27,600
computer corporation

4111
02:35:30,790 --> 02:35:28,800
started

4112
02:35:31,910 --> 02:35:30,800
uh and back then

4113
02:35:36,469 --> 02:35:31,920
uh

4114
02:35:38,790 --> 02:35:36,479
now everything is super fast and it

4115
02:35:40,550 --> 02:35:38,800
doesn't really matter you know

4116
02:35:43,349 --> 02:35:40,560
you're

4117
02:35:45,510 --> 02:35:43,359
speed increases now are

4118
02:35:47,830 --> 02:35:45,520
a little bit smaller than they were back

4119
02:35:49,830 --> 02:35:47,840
then back then it was like every couple

4120
02:35:51,990 --> 02:35:49,840
of months a new pentium chip was coming

4121
02:35:53,270 --> 02:35:52,000
out and things were doubling like

4122
02:35:56,950 --> 02:35:53,280
overnight

4123
02:35:59,190 --> 02:35:56,960
an american computer corporation

4124
02:36:01,670 --> 02:35:59,200
they had a website

4125
02:36:04,630 --> 02:36:01,680
and on their website

4126
02:36:07,349 --> 02:36:04,640
they actually had forums

4127
02:36:09,830 --> 02:36:07,359
and one of the things they had a bunch

4128
02:36:14,630 --> 02:36:09,840
of stuff that they were touting

4129
02:36:19,830 --> 02:36:14,640
but one of the things that they had was

4130
02:36:23,190 --> 02:36:19,840
a computer chip with alien technology

4131
02:36:24,550 --> 02:36:23,200
now i'm not making this up the

4132
02:36:27,590 --> 02:36:24,560
uh

4133
02:36:29,990 --> 02:36:27,600
the forums it would to go and hang out

4134
02:36:32,550 --> 02:36:30,000
it was almost like what happened with

4135
02:36:35,030 --> 02:36:32,560
john teeter a few years later

4136
02:36:37,510 --> 02:36:35,040
but you would jump into these forums and

4137
02:36:39,349 --> 02:36:37,520
there were moderators and crazy people

4138
02:36:40,790 --> 02:36:39,359
and the owner of the company would come

4139
02:36:44,389 --> 02:36:40,800
in and

4140
02:36:45,990 --> 02:36:44,399
and they're making all of these claims

4141
02:36:47,270 --> 02:36:46,000
and and

4142
02:36:49,270 --> 02:36:47,280
the

4143
02:36:51,510 --> 02:36:49,280
some of it was almost violent some of

4144
02:36:53,349 --> 02:36:51,520
the conversations now i'm gonna go well

4145
02:36:55,510 --> 02:36:53,359
anyway let me stay on let me stay on

4146
02:36:57,990 --> 02:36:55,520
target here remember i have a cold my

4147
02:36:59,110 --> 02:36:58,000
brain's not working right right now

4148
02:37:02,070 --> 02:36:59,120
but

4149
02:37:05,830 --> 02:37:02,080
the claims were that they had

4150
02:37:09,349 --> 02:37:05,840
alien technology that was recovered

4151
02:37:12,870 --> 02:37:09,359
i believe it was roswell to be specific

4152
02:37:14,630 --> 02:37:12,880
that um allowed their computer chips to

4153
02:37:17,110 --> 02:37:14,640
run at these uh

4154
02:37:19,349 --> 02:37:17,120
astronomical speeds

4155
02:37:23,270 --> 02:37:19,359
and you can actually go

4156
02:37:27,590 --> 02:37:23,280
and purchase a computer from acc with

4157
02:37:28,469 --> 02:37:27,600
these secret alien chips

4158
02:37:31,030 --> 02:37:28,479
now

4159
02:37:34,070 --> 02:37:31,040
i'm gonna i'm gonna get into this and

4160
02:37:35,990 --> 02:37:34,080
and do some investigations i will

4161
02:37:38,870 --> 02:37:36,000
uh see if we can produce some of the

4162
02:37:41,750 --> 02:37:38,880
forums uh it's got to be out there i

4163
02:37:44,950 --> 02:37:41,760
haven't done it in a while i remember

4164
02:37:47,110 --> 02:37:44,960
a couple of years ago it uh the the

4165
02:37:48,710 --> 02:37:47,120
memories came flooding back and i went

4166
02:37:51,110 --> 02:37:48,720
and checked it out and i and i found a

4167
02:37:53,349 --> 02:37:51,120
bunch of stuff so i know it's out there

4168
02:37:56,070 --> 02:37:53,359
and if anybody listening right now has

4169
02:37:59,510 --> 02:37:56,080
any information about acc

4170
02:38:01,910 --> 02:37:59,520
uh send it over to us and i would like

4171
02:38:03,349 --> 02:38:01,920
to uh also uh photographs there was a

4172
02:38:05,750 --> 02:38:03,359
bunch of

4173
02:38:07,190 --> 02:38:05,760
you could go and order a computer that

4174
02:38:09,190 --> 02:38:07,200
was a thing you can go and order it you

4175
02:38:10,790 --> 02:38:09,200
can have it custom configured

4176
02:38:12,870 --> 02:38:10,800
you can get it with the alien chips you

4177
02:38:15,990 --> 02:38:12,880
can get it without the alien chips

4178
02:38:18,309 --> 02:38:16,000
and if memory serves right they kept

4179
02:38:19,670 --> 02:38:18,319
delaying this super chip and it's going

4180
02:38:21,110 --> 02:38:19,680
to be in a month it's going to be in a

4181
02:38:22,710 --> 02:38:21,120
month hang on if you've ordered the

4182
02:38:24,950 --> 02:38:22,720
computer don't worry about it we will

4183
02:38:27,030 --> 02:38:24,960
deliver it we are and

4184
02:38:29,349 --> 02:38:27,040
and it just went on and went on and went

4185
02:38:32,389 --> 02:38:29,359
on for probably

4186
02:38:34,309 --> 02:38:32,399
about a year

4187
02:38:36,630 --> 02:38:34,319
until the bs meters for everybody

4188
02:38:38,870 --> 02:38:36,640
started to really fly off the handle and

4189
02:38:39,590 --> 02:38:38,880
and i think the authorities got involved

4190
02:38:42,230 --> 02:38:39,600
in

4191
02:38:43,910 --> 02:38:42,240
but i i just i've i've got to reveal

4192
02:38:47,270 --> 02:38:43,920
this and it is one of the most

4193
02:38:49,910 --> 02:38:47,280
fascinating stories out there again

4194
02:38:52,150 --> 02:38:49,920
it's why you come to this show and and

4195
02:38:53,590 --> 02:38:52,160
and for for all of us old-timers because

4196
02:38:55,030 --> 02:38:53,600
you have to remember now this is 20

4197
02:38:57,830 --> 02:38:55,040
years ago there were people listening to

4198
02:39:00,469 --> 02:38:57,840
this show today they weren't even born

4199
02:39:02,389 --> 02:39:00,479
when acc was doing their thing but if

4200
02:39:04,150 --> 02:39:02,399
you remember acc

4201
02:39:05,750 --> 02:39:04,160
shoot me an email if you've got any

4202
02:39:07,910 --> 02:39:05,760
information or anything let's collect

4203
02:39:10,389 --> 02:39:07,920
the data let's get it out there and

4204
02:39:12,469 --> 02:39:10,399
let's have a great show with it but uh

4205
02:39:14,630 --> 02:39:12,479
the the biggest hoaxes you know there's

4206
02:39:15,750 --> 02:39:14,640
a bunch out there

4207
02:39:17,830 --> 02:39:15,760
uh

4208
02:39:20,230 --> 02:39:17,840
i i don't want to

4209
02:39:22,710 --> 02:39:20,240
when you claim hoax you need to really

4210
02:39:25,910 --> 02:39:22,720
really really really

4211
02:39:27,590 --> 02:39:25,920
really be careful so i'm just not going

4212
02:39:30,469 --> 02:39:27,600
to fly off the handle now and start

4213
02:39:32,630 --> 02:39:30,479
naming names and companies and and stuff

4214
02:39:34,870 --> 02:39:32,640
but the but the confirmed hoaxes the

4215
02:39:37,030 --> 02:39:34,880
ones that have been busted

4216
02:39:39,990 --> 02:39:37,040
absolutely and and i think we're going

4217
02:39:42,150 --> 02:39:40,000
to kick things off with acc

4218
02:39:43,590 --> 02:39:42,160
this is fade to black i am your host you

4219
02:39:45,190 --> 02:39:43,600
mature shoot me an email to jimmy

4220
02:39:47,110 --> 02:39:45,200
jimmychurchradio.com

4221
02:39:49,270 --> 02:39:47,120
don't forget to follow us on twitter

4222
02:39:51,429 --> 02:39:49,280
thank you for putting up with my cold i

4223
02:39:53,670 --> 02:39:51,439
can barely breathe right now we need to

4224
02:39:56,389 --> 02:39:53,680
take a break so i can take care of

4225
02:39:58,630 --> 02:39:56,399
myself i'll be back after this kjccr on

4226
02:40:14,230 --> 02:39:58,640
the dark matter radio network don't

4227
02:40:21,110 --> 02:40:16,710
despite popular opinion

4228
02:40:23,590 --> 02:40:21,120
reading a book will not make you smarter

4229
02:40:26,790 --> 02:40:23,600
but listening to jimmy church will

4230
02:40:29,830 --> 02:40:26,800
on the dark matter radio network

4231
02:40:32,950 --> 02:40:29,840
he's always giving it to you straight

4232
02:40:48,150 --> 02:40:32,960
radio dot com on the dark matter radio

4233
02:40:48,160 --> 02:41:08,150
this is kjhcr jimmychurchradio.com

4234
02:41:13,429 --> 02:41:09,830
all right everybody welcome back

4235
02:41:16,790 --> 02:41:13,439
kjcr fade to black

4236
02:41:18,790 --> 02:41:16,800
i am your very sick host

4237
02:41:21,270 --> 02:41:18,800
jimmy church from the dark matter radio

4238
02:41:23,030 --> 02:41:21,280
network and it is a privilege

4239
02:41:25,110 --> 02:41:23,040
to be here

4240
02:41:26,830 --> 02:41:25,120
and speak with all of you around the

4241
02:41:28,389 --> 02:41:26,840
world shoot me an email to jimmy

4242
02:41:30,870 --> 02:41:28,399
jimmychurchradio.com follow us on

4243
02:41:32,630 --> 02:41:30,880
twitter tonight's the big twitter test

4244
02:41:34,950 --> 02:41:32,640
right there if you're listening to me

4245
02:41:36,630 --> 02:41:34,960
right now if you are listening to me

4246
02:41:41,830 --> 02:41:36,640
right now

4247
02:41:44,309 --> 02:41:41,840
click on twitter and go and follow us

4248
02:41:45,910 --> 02:41:44,319
if you're at jimmychurchradio.com or if

4249
02:41:47,750 --> 02:41:45,920
you're not go to jimmychurchradio.com

4250
02:41:51,590 --> 02:41:47,760
it's right there click on it if you're

4251
02:41:53,830 --> 02:41:51,600
at artbell.com right now just go on to

4252
02:41:56,070 --> 02:41:53,840
the faded black page which is easy

4253
02:41:59,429 --> 02:41:56,080
enough to do because you're listening

4254
02:42:02,230 --> 02:41:59,439
and click on twitter follow us

4255
02:42:04,469 --> 02:42:02,240
tonight's the big twitter test now

4256
02:42:06,309 --> 02:42:04,479
got a a couple of emails through the

4257
02:42:08,950 --> 02:42:06,319
break and i love it because they come in

4258
02:42:11,429 --> 02:42:08,960
in real time and they get sent into here

4259
02:42:12,630 --> 02:42:11,439
into the studio

4260
02:42:15,270 --> 02:42:12,640
and

4261
02:42:16,230 --> 02:42:15,280
uh you know talking about hoaxes

4262
02:42:18,150 --> 02:42:16,240
and

4263
02:42:19,910 --> 02:42:18,160
you know what about john teeter email

4264
02:42:21,349 --> 02:42:19,920
comes in what about john teeter the john

4265
02:42:23,910 --> 02:42:21,359
teter hoax

4266
02:42:27,110 --> 02:42:23,920
john teeter's not a hoax

4267
02:42:29,590 --> 02:42:27,120
nobody's been busted yet a hoax is when

4268
02:42:31,990 --> 02:42:29,600
somebody's been busted

4269
02:42:33,590 --> 02:42:32,000
i mean cold busted

4270
02:42:35,510 --> 02:42:33,600
the uh

4271
02:42:38,389 --> 02:42:35,520
oh i got another email what about billy

4272
02:42:40,309 --> 02:42:38,399
meyer billy meyer's a hoax well you know

4273
02:42:44,630 --> 02:42:40,319
again

4274
02:42:45,429 --> 02:42:44,640
and i would like to get the guys on here

4275
02:42:47,750 --> 02:42:45,439
uh

4276
02:42:50,389 --> 02:42:47,760
that represent billy meyer and actually

4277
02:42:53,349 --> 02:42:50,399
we got some email from them earlier this

4278
02:42:55,190 --> 02:42:53,359
week and the thing is about the billy

4279
02:42:57,510 --> 02:42:55,200
meyer case

4280
02:43:00,150 --> 02:42:57,520
is

4281
02:43:01,670 --> 02:43:00,160
well okay he he's lived a fascinating

4282
02:43:03,750 --> 02:43:01,680
life

4283
02:43:05,110 --> 02:43:03,760
got his arm cut off he was a secret

4284
02:43:08,070 --> 02:43:05,120
agent

4285
02:43:10,309 --> 02:43:08,080
he was you know he was a mercenary he's

4286
02:43:12,309 --> 02:43:10,319
a soldier he he did all kinds of crazy

4287
02:43:14,230 --> 02:43:12,319
things way before all of that

4288
02:43:15,270 --> 02:43:14,240
uh the photographs and the videos came

4289
02:43:16,630 --> 02:43:15,280
out

4290
02:43:17,429 --> 02:43:16,640
and

4291
02:43:28,070 --> 02:43:17,439
not

4292
02:43:29,830 --> 02:43:28,080
any air time or publicity on that

4293
02:43:32,550 --> 02:43:29,840
and his investigation i'm not going to

4294
02:43:33,910 --> 02:43:32,560
go there there's been a lot of debunking

4295
02:43:37,510 --> 02:43:33,920
attempted

4296
02:43:40,070 --> 02:43:37,520
at billy meyer and is it officially a

4297
02:43:43,110 --> 02:43:40,080
hoax oh man

4298
02:43:46,389 --> 02:43:43,120
it my personal feelings aside and if we

4299
02:43:48,389 --> 02:43:46,399
get their representation on this show um

4300
02:43:50,950 --> 02:43:48,399
we'll handle it right

4301
02:43:53,590 --> 02:43:50,960
because i i don't know if they'll want

4302
02:43:56,309 --> 02:43:53,600
to come onto this show and have me tear

4303
02:43:59,190 --> 02:43:56,319
them apart too as well because i want

4304
02:44:00,870 --> 02:43:59,200
the billy myers story to be true

4305
02:44:02,710 --> 02:44:00,880
deep in my heart i mean you listen to

4306
02:44:05,110 --> 02:44:02,720
him talk and you look at his face i mean

4307
02:44:07,590 --> 02:44:05,120
he's just such a nice guy

4308
02:44:09,750 --> 02:44:07,600
you just want it to be true you just

4309
02:44:11,990 --> 02:44:09,760
don't want it to be bad but uh or

4310
02:44:12,710 --> 02:44:12,000
or wrong i should say

4311
02:44:15,750 --> 02:44:12,720
but

4312
02:44:18,389 --> 02:44:15,760
so billy meyer hoax i don't know

4313
02:44:19,830 --> 02:44:18,399
uh the photographs are just too good

4314
02:44:22,469 --> 02:44:19,840
uh

4315
02:44:23,990 --> 02:44:22,479
a one-armed model maker

4316
02:44:26,469 --> 02:44:24,000
and and

4317
02:44:28,070 --> 02:44:26,479
and videographer and filmographer and

4318
02:44:30,389 --> 02:44:28,080
and all of that

4319
02:44:31,510 --> 02:44:30,399
doing it with i don't know it it would

4320
02:44:33,750 --> 02:44:31,520
be uh

4321
02:44:35,190 --> 02:44:33,760
he uh would be a really talented guy if

4322
02:44:37,030 --> 02:44:35,200
he pulled it all off with one arm which

4323
02:44:38,550 --> 02:44:37,040
means he for it to be a hoax he had to

4324
02:44:41,190 --> 02:44:38,560
have somebody help him

4325
02:44:43,269 --> 02:44:41,200
nothing is uh nobody's officially been

4326
02:44:45,670 --> 02:44:43,279
busted some of the photographs most of

4327
02:44:47,510 --> 02:44:45,680
the video look a little sketchy to me

4328
02:44:49,990 --> 02:44:47,520
some of the photographs look amazing i

4329
02:44:52,550 --> 02:44:50,000
was talking last week on the show

4330
02:44:54,790 --> 02:44:52,560
about a friend of mine dale romero and

4331
02:44:56,630 --> 02:44:54,800
dale is probably listening in las vegas

4332
02:44:59,269 --> 02:44:56,640
but him and his brother

4333
02:45:01,590 --> 02:44:59,279
were really influential about my career

4334
02:45:03,750 --> 02:45:01,600
into ufology

4335
02:45:06,230 --> 02:45:03,760
and one of the things that

4336
02:45:08,070 --> 02:45:06,240
they had was this huge billy meyer video

4337
02:45:11,590 --> 02:45:08,080
collection this is in the

4338
02:45:12,630 --> 02:45:11,600
in in the mid 80s a long time ago and uh

4339
02:45:24,790 --> 02:45:12,640
a

4340
02:45:27,510 --> 02:45:24,800
just too good too perfect

4341
02:45:30,150 --> 02:45:27,520
and i was i was happy that there was

4342
02:45:32,870 --> 02:45:30,160
photographs out there like this when i

4343
02:45:35,110 --> 02:45:32,880
look at them today i feel

4344
02:45:37,510 --> 02:45:35,120
different than i did then maybe i was

4345
02:45:39,910 --> 02:45:37,520
innocent maybe i was younger

4346
02:45:43,429 --> 02:45:39,920
certainly hadn't seen anything like that

4347
02:45:46,070 --> 02:45:43,439
up up to that time but today the billy

4348
02:45:47,269 --> 02:45:46,080
myers case to me is just

4349
02:45:50,070 --> 02:45:47,279
wide open

4350
02:45:51,510 --> 02:45:50,080
it hasn't officially you know so before

4351
02:45:53,269 --> 02:45:51,520
we call billy you know when you send me

4352
02:45:56,550 --> 02:45:53,279
an email what about the billy meyer hoax

4353
02:45:58,950 --> 02:45:56,560
it's no i'm not going there and like i

4354
02:46:01,750 --> 02:45:58,960
said their represent uh representatives

4355
02:46:03,590 --> 02:46:01,760
have have reached out we might

4356
02:46:04,870 --> 02:46:03,600
uh get them on the show but they've got

4357
02:46:10,550 --> 02:46:04,880
to uh

4358
02:46:12,469 --> 02:46:10,560
my scrutiny and my skepticism shoot me

4359
02:46:13,670 --> 02:46:12,479
an email if you really if you want them

4360
02:46:15,750 --> 02:46:13,680
on the show

4361
02:46:18,230 --> 02:46:15,760
and you know look there's a lot of

4362
02:46:19,830 --> 02:46:18,240
followers and believers out there of of

4363
02:46:22,710 --> 02:46:19,840
billy

4364
02:46:24,469 --> 02:46:22,720
i i'm not here to offend people there

4365
02:46:25,910 --> 02:46:24,479
are people out there that

4366
02:46:30,950 --> 02:46:25,920
that

4367
02:46:33,510 --> 02:46:30,960
a hoax and they would love for me to

4368
02:46:35,590 --> 02:46:33,520
probably you know take a stab at it

4369
02:46:37,349 --> 02:46:35,600
i'm right in the middle

4370
02:46:39,110 --> 02:46:37,359
and so they would have to come on the

4371
02:46:41,670 --> 02:46:39,120
show and agree i i just don't want to

4372
02:46:45,190 --> 02:46:41,680
offend anybody but i also want the truth

4373
02:46:47,590 --> 02:46:45,200
and that's why you come to this show

4374
02:46:49,110 --> 02:46:47,600
now anyway what was i talking about uh

4375
02:46:52,070 --> 02:46:49,120
right before that

4376
02:46:54,870 --> 02:46:52,080
somebody refresh my memory um oh john

4377
02:46:57,190 --> 02:46:54,880
teeter so yeah john teeter that's a

4378
02:46:58,710 --> 02:46:57,200
different story john teeter

4379
02:47:03,269 --> 02:46:58,720
hoax no

4380
02:47:04,550 --> 02:47:03,279
phenomena yes legend yes internet

4381
02:47:07,830 --> 02:47:04,560
sensation

4382
02:47:10,710 --> 02:47:07,840
yes hoax ah

4383
02:47:13,030 --> 02:47:10,720
if it's a hoax it's the greatest hoax of

4384
02:47:14,230 --> 02:47:13,040
all time this is fade to black i'm your

4385
02:47:16,150 --> 02:47:14,240
host jimmy church shoot me some more

4386
02:47:17,590 --> 02:47:16,160
email i'll get to him i don't have any

4387
02:47:19,670 --> 02:47:17,600
time for calls right at the end of the

4388
02:47:21,990 --> 02:47:19,680
show i'm going to take one more quick

4389
02:47:24,389 --> 02:47:22,000
break uh read a couple more emails get a

4390
02:47:27,910 --> 02:47:24,399
couple thoughts out and then get ready

4391
02:47:29,910 --> 02:47:27,920
for tomorrow night which is leslie keane

4392
02:47:32,550 --> 02:47:29,920
leslie keane is on the show tomorrow

4393
02:47:35,110 --> 02:47:32,560
what a week of radio

4394
02:47:36,389 --> 02:47:35,120
i love doing this this is faith black

4395
02:47:38,550 --> 02:47:36,399
i'm your host jimmy church on the dark

4396
02:47:40,950 --> 02:47:38,560
matter radio network don't touch that

4397
02:47:42,630 --> 02:47:40,960
mouse shoot me a couple more emails and

4398
02:47:44,150 --> 02:47:42,640
we'll go hang out in the forums tonight

4399
02:48:05,830 --> 02:47:44,160
i'll be back right after this stay with

4400
02:48:05,840 --> 02:48:16,230
this is kjcr jimmychurchradio.com

4401
02:48:45,670 --> 02:48:17,510
from the vultures of queens of the stone

4402
02:48:45,680 --> 02:49:09,429
so

4403
02:49:13,910 --> 02:49:11,269
all right everybody welcome back

4404
02:49:19,830 --> 02:49:16,790
on the dark matter radio network

4405
02:49:21,510 --> 02:49:19,840
i love saying that i'm your host jimmy

4406
02:49:23,269 --> 02:49:21,520
church

4407
02:49:24,630 --> 02:49:23,279
shoot me some email

4408
02:49:28,230 --> 02:49:24,640
give me something to read overnight too

4409
02:49:30,710 --> 02:49:28,240
as well i've always got like 30 40 50.

4410
02:49:32,110 --> 02:49:30,720
and it's a just great reading

4411
02:49:36,469 --> 02:49:32,120
jimmy

4412
02:49:37,990 --> 02:49:36,479
i wanted to say oh follow us on twitter

4413
02:49:39,670 --> 02:49:38,000
at jchurchradio the links are right

4414
02:49:42,389 --> 02:49:39,680
there go and do it go and do it the big

4415
02:49:45,269 --> 02:49:42,399
twitter test is tonight see we can do

4416
02:49:49,910 --> 02:49:45,279
get over 500 followers tonight twitter's

4417
02:49:55,670 --> 02:49:53,349
um uh getting back to some email and i'm

4418
02:49:57,429 --> 02:49:55,680
not going to say this person's name and

4419
02:49:58,550 --> 02:49:57,439
i know he's listening to the show right

4420
02:49:59,429 --> 02:49:58,560
now

4421
02:50:02,230 --> 02:49:59,439
and

4422
02:50:04,790 --> 02:50:02,240
so i'm just gonna say this

4423
02:50:07,110 --> 02:50:04,800
uh uh one of the listeners to the show

4424
02:50:09,429 --> 02:50:07,120
uh we've been exchanging email and and

4425
02:50:10,469 --> 02:50:09,439
doing a a few things over the last month

4426
02:50:12,309 --> 02:50:10,479
or so

4427
02:50:13,910 --> 02:50:12,319
but he's an author

4428
02:50:17,269 --> 02:50:13,920
really good one too

4429
02:50:18,870 --> 02:50:17,279
and he he sent me this email uh this

4430
02:50:21,910 --> 02:50:18,880
evening that said

4431
02:50:23,670 --> 02:50:21,920
uh jimmy after the stephen greer

4432
02:50:26,469 --> 02:50:23,680
interview

4433
02:50:28,070 --> 02:50:26,479
i it got me going i'm not going to read

4434
02:50:30,870 --> 02:50:28,080
uh word for word i'm just going to

4435
02:50:33,830 --> 02:50:30,880
paraphrase here but he said uh it got me

4436
02:50:35,590 --> 02:50:33,840
going and i went back i was 80 done with

4437
02:50:36,790 --> 02:50:35,600
my new novel

4438
02:50:44,389 --> 02:50:36,800
and

4439
02:50:48,630 --> 02:50:44,399
because of the stephen

4440
02:50:51,830 --> 02:50:48,640
so and he sent me um today and thank you

4441
02:50:53,990 --> 02:50:51,840
uh you know uh thank you don

4442
02:50:55,750 --> 02:50:54,000
um he sent me the first three chapters

4443
02:50:57,670 --> 02:50:55,760
of his new book

4444
02:51:00,230 --> 02:50:57,680
and i and i read through it today and i

4445
02:51:02,389 --> 02:51:00,240
i and i shot him off a tweet real quick

4446
02:51:03,990 --> 02:51:02,399
to say man you know he's got me hooked

4447
02:51:05,750 --> 02:51:04,000
this this new book's gonna be great and

4448
02:51:07,190 --> 02:51:05,760
i can't wait till it comes out

4449
02:51:08,950 --> 02:51:07,200
and uh

4450
02:51:11,750 --> 02:51:08,960
so anyway but for

4451
02:51:13,590 --> 02:51:11,760
for that i was just thinking man

4452
02:51:18,950 --> 02:51:13,600
really

4453
02:51:21,750 --> 02:51:18,960
reading the first three chapters of the

4454
02:51:23,990 --> 02:51:21,760
book i get it i understand and i

4455
02:51:25,590 --> 02:51:24,000
understand the inspiration too as well

4456
02:51:28,150 --> 02:51:25,600
and i'm looking forward to the new book

4457
02:51:31,110 --> 02:51:28,160
coming out and oh oh so i got a couple

4458
02:51:33,670 --> 02:51:31,120
of other emails uh today too when i i

4459
02:51:37,190 --> 02:51:33,680
commented last night

4460
02:51:39,510 --> 02:51:37,200
about well i i did two little rants last

4461
02:51:42,150 --> 02:51:39,520
night i did one on

4462
02:51:44,230 --> 02:51:42,160
uh what the earth looks like when you're

4463
02:51:46,870 --> 02:51:44,240
looking back at the earth

4464
02:51:49,269 --> 02:51:46,880
because the traditional

4465
02:51:50,150 --> 02:51:49,279
not only the traditional photographs but

4466
02:51:56,469 --> 02:51:50,160
the

4467
02:51:59,190 --> 02:51:56,479
but that's not really what you see when

4468
02:52:02,070 --> 02:51:59,200
you see earth you see technology you see

4469
02:52:03,349 --> 02:52:02,080
life you see lights you see things going

4470
02:52:04,150 --> 02:52:03,359
on

4471
02:52:06,630 --> 02:52:04,160
and

4472
02:52:08,630 --> 02:52:06,640
you know it's obvious that that the

4473
02:52:10,150 --> 02:52:08,640
earth is alive you know there that

4474
02:52:11,750 --> 02:52:10,160
there's life here there's intelligence

4475
02:52:13,830 --> 02:52:11,760
here and

4476
02:52:16,550 --> 02:52:13,840
and so i made those comments last night

4477
02:52:18,309 --> 02:52:16,560
about you know if you drive by earth you

4478
02:52:20,309 --> 02:52:18,319
don't need to

4479
02:52:23,670 --> 02:52:20,319
land on this planet to see what's going

4480
02:52:25,670 --> 02:52:23,680
on it's obvious that there's life here

4481
02:52:27,750 --> 02:52:25,680
and when we look

4482
02:52:30,150 --> 02:52:27,760
you know look into our own solar system

4483
02:52:31,670 --> 02:52:30,160
here with you know venus and mars and

4484
02:52:35,110 --> 02:52:31,680
saturn and jupiter

4485
02:52:37,110 --> 02:52:35,120
we can look pick up a telescope look in

4486
02:52:38,950 --> 02:52:37,120
your backyard go look at jupiter and you

4487
02:52:40,550 --> 02:52:38,960
know there's nothing going on there go

4488
02:52:41,750 --> 02:52:40,560
look at mars you know there's nothing

4489
02:52:43,590 --> 02:52:41,760
going on

4490
02:52:45,670 --> 02:52:43,600
there's no life there's nothing lit up

4491
02:52:48,870 --> 02:52:45,680
there's nothing there's nothing there

4492
02:52:51,349 --> 02:52:48,880
but it's easy to detect uh what is going

4493
02:52:53,190 --> 02:52:51,359
on with earth you just gotta glance at

4494
02:52:54,469 --> 02:52:53,200
it and you can see the light

4495
02:52:59,910 --> 02:52:54,479
and

4496
02:53:01,830 --> 02:52:59,920
were were on both sides of the fence but

4497
02:53:02,870 --> 02:53:01,840
i just want to i just want to drive this

4498
02:53:05,030 --> 02:53:02,880
home

4499
02:53:05,910 --> 02:53:05,040
and i know that we're working hard at it

4500
02:53:08,389 --> 02:53:05,920
but

4501
02:53:11,110 --> 02:53:08,399
it's i would think that we would be able

4502
02:53:13,590 --> 02:53:11,120
to put together the technology to detect

4503
02:53:15,830 --> 02:53:13,600
lights on another planet in another

4504
02:53:17,190 --> 02:53:15,840
solar system there must be a way to

4505
02:53:18,230 --> 02:53:17,200
detect

4506
02:53:20,150 --> 02:53:18,240
that

4507
02:53:24,230 --> 02:53:20,160
and if you and what i was trying to say

4508
02:53:28,630 --> 02:53:24,240
was when when an uh when a planet is

4509
02:53:30,550 --> 02:53:28,640
is uh in its it's moving it's rotating

4510
02:53:33,429 --> 02:53:30,560
then you would be able to see those

4511
02:53:35,269 --> 02:53:33,439
lights on it rotate as well and i would

4512
02:53:38,230 --> 02:53:35,279
just think

4513
02:53:40,469 --> 02:53:38,240
that that technology would be there but

4514
02:53:41,670 --> 02:53:40,479
my point that i was trying to drive home

4515
02:53:43,349 --> 02:53:41,680
is this

4516
02:53:46,710 --> 02:53:43,359
if we

4517
02:53:48,950 --> 02:53:46,720
in our little minuscule

4518
02:53:52,150 --> 02:53:48,960
intelligence that we have

4519
02:53:55,110 --> 02:53:52,160
here and it it it's nothing compared to

4520
02:53:56,710 --> 02:53:55,120
what would be out there as an advance

4521
02:54:00,070 --> 02:53:56,720
life form

4522
02:54:02,630 --> 02:54:00,080
and their technology it would be

4523
02:54:04,230 --> 02:54:02,640
so easy they know

4524
02:54:06,469 --> 02:54:04,240
that we're here

4525
02:54:08,710 --> 02:54:06,479
and that's the point that i tried to

4526
02:54:11,110 --> 02:54:08,720
drive home with that last night we're

4527
02:54:14,710 --> 02:54:11,120
detecting billions of planets

4528
02:54:16,630 --> 02:54:14,720
all the time now it's just billions

4529
02:54:19,269 --> 02:54:16,640
of earths out there

4530
02:54:22,389 --> 02:54:19,279
and if we can do that with uh you know

4531
02:54:23,510 --> 02:54:22,399
we don't have any technology we're we're

4532
02:54:25,990 --> 02:54:23,520
dumb

4533
02:54:28,070 --> 02:54:26,000
compared to what could possibly be out

4534
02:54:30,790 --> 02:54:28,080
there and they if you don't think they

4535
02:54:33,030 --> 02:54:30,800
know we're here they know

4536
02:54:35,670 --> 02:54:33,040
we are here and you need to think about

4537
02:54:37,910 --> 02:54:35,680
that oh i i just wanted to say

4538
02:54:39,910 --> 02:54:37,920
um i was just looking at a couple of

4539
02:54:43,110 --> 02:54:39,920
things right now

4540
02:54:44,710 --> 02:54:43,120
listening to this show right now

4541
02:54:46,710 --> 02:54:44,720
listen to this and if you don't think

4542
02:54:48,389 --> 02:54:46,720
it's international this is just crazy of

4543
02:54:49,750 --> 02:54:48,399
course we got the united states

4544
02:54:51,349 --> 02:54:49,760
we got our good friends from the north

4545
02:54:53,830 --> 02:54:51,359
and canada and

4546
02:54:55,670 --> 02:54:53,840
you know philip mantle uh being in today

4547
02:54:57,190 --> 02:54:55,680
you know huge audience over the united

4548
02:55:00,389 --> 02:54:57,200
kingdom but just listen to this

4549
02:55:03,750 --> 02:55:00,399
australia sweden germany denmark

4550
02:55:05,190 --> 02:55:03,760
netherlands czech republic france

4551
02:55:10,469 --> 02:55:05,200
croatia

4552
02:55:14,790 --> 02:55:10,479
argentina belarus spain brazil ireland

4553
02:55:15,670 --> 02:55:14,800
finland japan mexico new zealand poland

4554
02:55:17,990 --> 02:55:15,680
and

4555
02:55:20,950 --> 02:55:18,000
slovenia

4556
02:55:24,630 --> 02:55:20,960
and the list goes on but it's it's it's

4557
02:55:26,070 --> 02:55:24,640
so cool to get email and

4558
02:55:28,230 --> 02:55:26,080
and know that people are listening to

4559
02:55:29,269 --> 02:55:28,240
this show around the world and those are

4560
02:55:32,550 --> 02:55:29,279
countries

4561
02:55:34,550 --> 02:55:32,560
that that's those aren't the cities

4562
02:55:36,469 --> 02:55:34,560
you know it's just the country united

4563
02:55:38,309 --> 02:55:36,479
states is one country you know we've got

4564
02:55:41,030 --> 02:55:38,319
thousands of listeners

4565
02:55:42,389 --> 02:55:41,040
in in cities and and states across the

4566
02:55:45,110 --> 02:55:42,399
united states and that's the way it's

4567
02:55:45,910 --> 02:55:45,120
represented and i watch this map light

4568
02:55:47,269 --> 02:55:45,920
up

4569
02:55:49,910 --> 02:55:47,279
during the show

4570
02:55:52,870 --> 02:55:49,920
and bing bing bing bing bing it is

4571
02:55:55,510 --> 02:55:52,880
absolutely crazy to me and the email

4572
02:55:58,230 --> 02:55:55,520
that comes in from around the world and

4573
02:56:00,309 --> 02:55:58,240
i i i'm just so happy and it is such a

4574
02:56:01,910 --> 02:56:00,319
privilege now also let me just get to

4575
02:56:04,230 --> 02:56:01,920
this tomorrow night

4576
02:56:05,990 --> 02:56:04,240
is uh leslie keane

4577
02:56:08,230 --> 02:56:06,000
and leslie

4578
02:56:10,309 --> 02:56:08,240
uh she just came in she was uh down in

4579
02:56:13,349 --> 02:56:10,319
south america she just got back to the

4580
02:56:15,349 --> 02:56:13,359
states and uh she said you know i'll

4581
02:56:17,750 --> 02:56:15,359
contact you as soon as i get back and

4582
02:56:20,469 --> 02:56:17,760
let me get rested and i said are you

4583
02:56:21,670 --> 02:56:20,479
rescued yeah i'm so excited uh to come

4584
02:56:23,990 --> 02:56:21,680
on the show

4585
02:56:26,870 --> 02:56:24,000
looking forward to it and this was

4586
02:56:30,550 --> 02:56:26,880
something that we worked on for a really

4587
02:56:32,230 --> 02:56:30,560
really long time and to have uh leslie

4588
02:56:34,389 --> 02:56:32,240
and i and i said this to her yesterday

4589
02:56:36,870 --> 02:56:34,399
actually think about

4590
02:56:39,349 --> 02:56:36,880
you know your who opened up for you this

4591
02:56:40,550 --> 02:56:39,359
week and you're closing out the show

4592
02:56:43,750 --> 02:56:40,560
this week

4593
02:56:46,469 --> 02:56:43,760
and it is that kind of show that we want

4594
02:56:48,230 --> 02:56:46,479
to put together every single night

4595
02:56:50,070 --> 02:56:48,240
no filler

4596
02:56:53,510 --> 02:56:50,080
no slouch acts

4597
02:56:55,349 --> 02:56:53,520
nothing like that on this show that

4598
02:56:57,190 --> 02:56:55,359
showed the show tonight with philip was

4599
02:56:59,590 --> 02:56:57,200
absolutely amazing

4600
02:57:00,950 --> 02:56:59,600
and and being able to bring in leslie

4601
02:57:03,030 --> 02:57:00,960
keane tomorrow somebody that i have

4602
02:57:05,990 --> 02:57:03,040
admired and looked up to

4603
02:57:08,870 --> 02:57:06,000
for a long time and she does it all

4604
02:57:10,230 --> 02:57:08,880
she's not just uh you know one single

4605
02:57:13,110 --> 02:57:10,240
approach to this

4606
02:57:15,190 --> 02:57:13,120
uh ufology issue she's not only an

4607
02:57:19,110 --> 02:57:15,200
author but you know she's

4608
02:57:22,550 --> 02:57:19,120
um uh a filmmaker and and a broadcaster

4609
02:57:25,349 --> 02:57:22,560
and and i was looking at some pictures

4610
02:57:29,590 --> 02:57:25,359
of her uh last week

4611
02:57:33,670 --> 02:57:29,600
she has been on every major show every

4612
02:57:35,429 --> 02:57:33,680
news outlet every major player there is

4613
02:57:37,590 --> 02:57:35,439
and she's coming on the show tomorrow

4614
02:57:39,830 --> 02:57:37,600
and i i just cannot wait and i'm totally

4615
02:57:41,910 --> 02:57:39,840
excited so just let me say in advance if

4616
02:57:43,910 --> 02:57:41,920
there's anything that you need to get

4617
02:57:45,990 --> 02:57:43,920
out there to leslie get the sh get the

4618
02:57:47,910 --> 02:57:46,000
questions coming in now

4619
02:57:49,990 --> 02:57:47,920
jimmy jimmychurchradio.com

4620
02:57:52,230 --> 02:57:50,000
it's going to be a a great interview

4621
02:57:54,389 --> 02:57:52,240
tomorrow great conversation but i'm just

4622
02:57:56,309 --> 02:57:54,399
saying in advance this is an opportunity

4623
02:57:58,630 --> 02:57:56,319
that doesn't come up too often and

4624
02:58:00,230 --> 02:57:58,640
tomorrow night will be leslie keem live

4625
02:58:02,150 --> 02:58:00,240
from new york and if there's anything

4626
02:58:04,309 --> 02:58:02,160
you want me to get to her

4627
02:58:05,750 --> 02:58:04,319
get the emails coming now i've already

4628
02:58:08,150 --> 02:58:05,760
had a few come in

4629
02:58:11,830 --> 02:58:08,160
so that's about it stay tuned

4630
02:58:14,550 --> 02:58:11,840
coming up next is spooky south coast

4631
02:58:16,870 --> 02:58:14,560
with my guy tim weisberg

4632
02:58:19,349 --> 02:58:16,880
tim you should have ironed your shirt in

4633
02:58:21,830 --> 02:58:19,359
that movie special thanks to keith

4634
02:58:24,870 --> 02:58:21,840
rowland fade to black's executive

4635
02:58:27,670 --> 02:58:24,880
producer is rita kumirian the show is

4636
02:58:31,590 --> 02:58:27,680
produced by hilton j palm the announcers

4637
02:58:33,670 --> 02:58:31,600
are steve harder and mark d kovar that

4638
02:58:35,429 --> 02:58:33,680
separates him from all of the other mark

4639
02:58:37,510 --> 02:58:35,439
bobos out there in the world music is by

4640
02:58:40,630 --> 02:58:37,520
doug aldridge bay to black is produced

4641
02:58:42,469 --> 02:58:40,640
by kjcr on the dark matter radio network

4642
02:58:48,790 --> 02:58:42,479
i'm your host jimmy church we'll see you

4643
02:58:48,800 --> 02:59:31,429
uh